How do I direct actor's to this in certain shots?

[harmonica44]

I have trouble with shots with two actors, and they are both facing the same direction. Say I have a walk and talk scene. I want to shoot it diagonally from one side, and diagonally from the opposite side. Then I cut back and forth between the two angles, on the best takes, back and forth, like a lot of movies do.

How do I get the actors to be looking the same direction when you want to cut to the next shot? Sometimes they are looking at each other, sometimes they are looking ahead when they are walking. I could instruct them when to look at one another and when to look ahead, but this can cause them to give a bad performance because they are constantly paranoid of their heads turning accidentally.

Same goes for shots done in cars, cutting back and forth from the side car window's point of view. How do director's make the continuity match so well, since both actors are always shown in the cuts back and forth?

 

[shortboy]

For the walking scene, if head turns aren't totally specific to certain words, give them a general of where you want them to turn their heads. Just make sure that it's consistent and that they remember to turn their head. Usually, we have our actors run through the lines and whatever they feel comfortable with have them keep doing it.

 

[Cracker Funk]

As a director, I don't think you have a great deal of power in this situation. I shockingly agree with you -- I think it would be a bad idea to make sure that their heads are faced in the EXACT same positions, on EVERY single take. Yeah, that kind of direction could be a bit too rigid, and could make their performances feel cold and overly calculated.

Truth be told, experienced actors will do what you need them to do. An actor who is experienced with film production will keep their body movements the same, while keeping their emotional performance fresh. It is not an easy thing that they do; I do not envy their task.

You can get some TERRIFIC performances out of inexperienced actors, but you might expect to deal with continuity issues in editing. Should that be the case, you might not edit to which takes offer the best performances, but simply the takes that actually fit together.

In my mind, this is an editing problem, not so much one of a director.

 

[jax_rox]

For the record, there are many big budget films and television shows where 'head continuity' isn't consistent.

 

[MileCreations]

You can get some TERRIFIC performances out of inexperienced actors, but you might expect to deal with continuity issues in editing. Should that be the case, you might not edit to which takes offer the best performances, but simply the takes that actually fit together.

In my mind, this is an editing problem, not so much one of a director.

This is basically what you always have to do, though try and work in longer segments of dialogue especially when it's a good take, both for the camera and the actors, and only cut away when to really need to

 

[knightly]

I've found that if the viewer wants a cut (you can feel it screaming at you for a cut) and you cut at that moment, there's alot of continuity that will be forgiven.

 

[2001 Productions]

As a director, I don't think you have a great deal of power in this situation. I shockingly agree with you -- I think it would be a bad idea to make sure that their heads are faced in the EXACT same positions, on EVERY single take. Yeah, that kind of direction could be a bit too rigid, and could make their performances feel cold and overly calculated.

Truth be told, experienced actors will do what you need them to do. An actor who is experienced with film production will keep their body movements the same, while keeping their emotional performance fresh. It is not an easy thing that they do; I do not envy their task.

You can get some TERRIFIC performances out of inexperienced actors, but you might expect to deal with continuity issues in editing. Should that be the case, you might not edit to which takes offer the best performances, but simply the takes that actually fit together.

In my mind, this is an editing problem, not so much one of a director.

+1

 

[harmonica44]

I've found that if the viewer wants a cut (you can feel it screaming at you for a cut) and you cut at that moment, there's alot of continuity that will be forgiven.

Well I could get the actors to do it all in one take. It's just a walk and talk scene that is mostly for set up, and no real heavy emotion, that I feel I need close ups for. If I get a whole take from angle that is good, why not? Or how do you know if thew viewer is screaming for a cut? In my own taste, I don't mind a whole scene done in one take, depending on the scene, and the emotions of it.

 

[8salacious9]

What film is this for?

 

[harmonica44]

Just practicing shots with calaborators. No specific movie as of yet.

 

[knightly]

...how do you know if thew viewer is screaming for a cut?

Watch the film as an audience member, not a filmmaker... much of this comes from watching your work with an audience. It's really an experience thing. If it works in one take, it won't "feel" wrong while you're editing it... if it does "feel" wrong, it wants a cut.

 

[harmonica44]

Sure how often do you ask friends opinions before you go out and make a movie though? You want to know what people think of the angles before you start shooting cause then you know what to shoot, for such short amount of time on locations, cause of low budget. Plus shouldn't directors make their own decisions on shots and cuts without other people's input on how long he cut should last? I mean Stanley Kubrick let's a shot last as long as he wants, and it never seemed to fail him.

 

[WalterB]

I never ask opinions from friends before shooting... it's not productive.

And Kubrick had large resources. Enough to sometimes do a 100 takes to get it perfect.

 

[dlevanchuk]

This is how I would approach this scene:

We have two inexperienced actors, an inexperienced camera man, an exposition scene with talking heads.

a. Inexperienced actors will not be concistent with their movements. What can you do? punch in little closer and get a shallow DOF. That way an actor in the foreground doesn't attract too much attention. BUT
b. You're not really experience camera operator/focus puller and will have a problem with balancing the camera while walking and pulling focus at the same time. So walking AND having DOF won't work...

What else can you do?

Do your actors have to walk? Why can't they be stationary? Since this is an exposition scene - they need to be located at some location with an eye candy, otherwise your scene will be BORING.

My solution:

Find a good looking cinematic place (cafe, beach, cool looking park, stip bar). Sit the actors down. Get shallow DOF and shoot them diagonally.

Done.
When you hear "shoot with the resourses you have", its not just props, but yours and your crew's experience as well.

 

[dr stilly]

I had a similar issue and I just asked the actors to be mindful of where they look on each line they deliver and try to stick to that. The pro actors seem better at this than the inexperienced.

 

[harmonica44]

This is how I would approach this scene:

We have two inexperienced actors, an inexperienced camera man, an exposition scene with talking heads.

a. Inexperienced actors will not be concistent with their movements. What can you do? punch in little closer and get a shallow DOF. That way an actor in the foreground doesn't attract too much attention. BUT
b. You're not really experience camera operator/focus puller and will have a problem with balancing the camera while walking and pulling focus at the same time. So walking AND having DOF won't work...

What else can you do?

Do your actors have to walk? Why can't they be stationary? Since this is an exposition scene - they need to be located at some location with an eye candy, otherwise your scene will be BORING.

My solution:

Find a good looking cinematic place (cafe, beach, cool looking park, stip bar). Sit the actors down. Get shallow DOF and shoot them diagonally.

Done.
When you hear "shoot with the resourses you have", its not just props, but yours and your crew's experience as well.

Well I just want them to walk cause I found a nice location on a nice street to have it. Plus I want the film to go outside a bit, and not just be stationary indoors for all the scenes. I don't want to put one of the actors in a shallow DOF though if that's what you mean. If I have two actors in the same shot, I want them both in focus. At least I would ideally.

 

[jax_rox]

Personally, I don't like to go <f2.8 on most day exteriors if I can help it, mostly because shallow DOF on a day exterior often looks odd, to my eye at least. I generally keep it between f4.0 and f5.6.

Shot-wise, you can get around it by cutting to something else before cutting to their heads. Also, it is generally considered good cinematic practice to change the angle when punching in for a new shot - if you merely punch in standing in the same spot, the different action will be really obvious. If you're on a different angle, the cut will hide a lot of it.

It also depends on your cutting - generally, you're cutting between two closeups or OTS's in dialogue, so you shouldn't really have all that much to match.

Or, get real actors

There are plenty of ways to get around this, you just need to start thinking creatively

 

[Sweetie]

how often do you ask friends opinions before you go out and make a movie though?

It depends on the question, their level of experience and the level of your experience. I'll ask non filmmaking friends about story and characters, but I won't ask them about topics like angels in which they have no interest.

You want to know what people think of the angles before you start shooting cause then you know what to shoot, for such short amount of time on locations, cause of low budget. Plus shouldn't directors make their own decisions on shots and cuts without other people's input on how long he cut should last?

This is typically done well before you get on to the location. It's fine to ask for input, especially from dept heads if it is their job. For instance, a director/DOP/editor/ad talking about the angle and shots, length with the script supervisor/writer/actors etc. Including some people, like the caterer on camera angels isn't going to be of benefit to anyone.

When you're on location, it should be about executing your plan, not coming up with it. Of course things come up, and you'll notice little holes in your plan and need to cover or change things. If you're not quite sure, there's not a lot of harm (well wasting time of course can hurt) in asking for a second opinion, but you don't want to make a film by committee, at least not in the production phase.

 

[jax_rox]

Ultimately, decisions come down to the Director, but you'd be remiss not to recognise the experience of your key HODs. All Directors confer with their HODs but it's more about quickly getting a suggestion and making a decision based on what you think is best and going to take the least amoun of time. You don't want to be umming and ahhing on set, moving the camera and lights around and around unti you finally figure out what you want.