Hate Actors

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FatalFire

So... I feel so nieve right now. At least I can take this as a learning experience....

So this 5 min film project we were given at uni, we had almost no limitations and could do what we wanted. Most people tend to do abstract art type things. I'm not interested in that I like narrative films. I decided to make a short which was 1 scene. The film is basicly a conversation between 2 people at an apartment front door. I planned to use this project to practice writing and filming dialog and creating characters in a short span of type. I wrote it up everything was ok, I worked out how I was gonna film it in my house to make it look like an apartment. Everything good to go. It was october my deadline was january 12th.

I dont know so many people in this city and my hometown where my friends are is too far away so I sent out an email to all the performance arts students at my uni. I needed a guy early 20s and a woman the same age who was pretty. I got no replies at all from guys so I figured I could do that myself since the camera is fixed on a tripod anyway (we have to do the filming ourselves). Several from women only 2 of them really looked right. I talked with them over several emails and they both liked my project idea and both wanted to do it. I tried to set up a meeting with one of them to talk about the project and show her script, thats when she stopped replying to all emails. The other was busy all the time but gave me her number, we spoke on the phone a lot about the project. I asked her if she will be free to do the project before christmas she said sure. By December 15th she tells me she cant and can only do it in january. I remind her my deadline jan 12th and we agreed we would do it in the first week of jan. I call her on Jan 2nd no answer... I text her on Jan 5th no reply... so now its the 8th and I have given up on meeting my deadline and am thinking what to say to my lecturers. They are pretty much gonna think I am some douche slacker who doesn't care about the course at all when I have ideas about film making, stories and scene ideas buzzing around my head constantly everyday. I just want to make a film but people keep letting me down... ugh.....................

Next year my final year I have to make a much longer film, 30-50 mins I think. I have tons of ideas for it but I find myself dreading it now worrying about flaky actors.

People just make me sick. Its like a couple hours max, just a rehersal then the filming. Then they get a short film of themselves acting that can be used in their portfolio, I said I would give them a copy on dvd aswell.....omg :-/

People who mess others around like this just need to die. I cant believe people can be so selfish.


I'm done ranting.
 
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Be a Pro

I would have just one recommendation for you on this. You should approach casting as a professional would. Sending an email to people to see who is interested puts out a strange vibe to actors. They wonder why the info didn't come through their fine arts department or an agency. At the very least, go to the Theatre Department and ask if you could take 5 minutes to address acting classes, introducing your project to them. Be clear that it is non-union and without pay, but that you are a good filmmaker and an actor could possibly benefit from having good footage for their demo reel. And, if you do promise that, FOLLOW THROUGH and get them the footage. There's nothing worse for an actor than to spend their valuable time on an independent project hoping to get some good footage only to have a "flaky" director bail on them.

Best of luck on your next project.

Steve
 
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I've acted in USC and UCLA student films and had a great time and did get good footage from them. But, actors beware...MANY 'student' directors will flake out on you and all that good work you did will be for naught. There are also 'flaky' independent filmmakers who are not students who will flake on you. I've had a few bad experiences with indie directors who appeared to have it all together and then when I tried to get footage, their phone was no longer in service.
 
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I can tell you that I am always surprised at how flaky fellow actors can be. To not be punctual and take it seriously is, well just beyond my scope of understanding. This is serious business.

But, aspiring film makers/directors can be just as flaky. There is something about our society, the way we raise our children, that tends to result in adults that have no sense of reliability and responsibility. I think it has to do with the fact that parents don't make their children responsible enough at early enough of an age.

I have had to hunt down copies of work I have done, call over and over, after leaving voice mails. I have gone to auditions where it was implied that the project was about to shoot, only to be told that they were 'thinking' of shooting sometime next year.

I have worked on shoots that were so poorly planned it actually surprised me how good the finished product turned out.

For all these reasons I approach film making as if it was like war. Meticulous planning, regimented discipline, and clear communication. Instead of the art of war, film making is the war of art.
 
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I think a lot depends upon getting to the right person at the right time + people who wants to be in front of camera.
Last night we shooted whole night (for my film course) and great things happened. A group of drunk young guys came and they insisted they ant to get shooted. So on the spot we adjusted them and outcome was far more better :). I meet many people (while shooting for my project) who are willing to act and to come in front of CAMERA. and i love handling them. I will suggest FatalFire always have a backup of your actors. We do the same.


By the way i will soon upload my 2 projects on youtube and the experience is great. :)
 
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Just make sure you're getting professional actors (by professional I mean at whatever level they are at). If an actor has a resume and a headshot, and they are very composed and professional in the audition, you can bet you'll see the same behavior on set.

If you hire a goof-off college kid because he wants 'to act'...you may find yourself postponing your shooting schedule.

It all depends on the town you live in (the film and theatrical presence), and your own quality of work. If your movies look like crap, quality actors will stay away from you. If your work looks great, quality actors will find YOU. If you don't have any previous work, again quality actors are likely to stay away from you.

Also, be sure you treat your actors well. You don't have to pay them...just make sure you feed them when they work, get them a copy of the finished project, and treat them with respect.
 
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From an actor's perspective, you have to realize that there are also A LOT of flaky production companies out there too, so if you're working with actors who have been burnt by the flaky ones, you almost have to prove at you're not like them in order to be taken seriously and get a committment.

Personally, I thoroughly research people before even auditioning and if they don't have a website or a demo of their work or an article about their work or something online, then I won't work with them (unless I know them personally) because there are so many people out there who don't have their shit together and just think that they can be filmmakers when they really have no idea what they're doing. So I'm assuming that if atleast they've gotten some sort of attention from something about their films that they must be doing something right and that the production won't be a total waste of time. Of course also, when I committ to a project, I'm committed 100% - which I agree is a problem among many actors - they say they'll be on set and then never show up and so on. But many production companies do that to - will call an hour before the shoot is scheduled and cancell it - it's a problem that plauges every part of this industry - I know countless films that haven't been made because the investors didn't have the capital they said they had - you should always have a back up plan unless you're working with people you know and are sure aren't going to flake out on you. And of course if you're paying people, that always helps in getting them to committ.
 
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FatalFire said:
Yeah well... incase anyone is wondering it did work out in the end I found some new ones who were not douchebags.

From now on i'll presume everyone is a jackass until they prove otherwise.
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That's basically how I work - I don't believe that anything is really going to get made or that I really have the part until I am on the set and we start shooting because there have been SO many times that I get cast in something and it never gets made, or someone tells me they want me for a part and then never calls, or cancels a shoot an hour before it's supposed to happen. I'll prepare and get ready for the role and leave my schedule open and everything, but I don't let myself get emotionally invested in projects anymore because it's such a dissapointment when they fall through.

This way, you're prepared for the worst even if everything goes right and then you don't get screwed.
 
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At the indie level of the game (low, micro, or no budget), both parties (company and actor) have to research one another, as well as hold an 'interview' of sorts. The audition is a great place for both the actor and the auditor to interview one another. Of course, there should be research done prior to the audition, which could save a lot of headaches. If an actor or production company doesn't have an online presence at all, it may be best to look elsewhere for work or talent.

I'm not trying to perpetuate the annoying catch 22 that our lovely industry holds dear (to do a SAG film, you have to be SAG, and you can't be SAG until you do a SAG film)...meaning, I don't think that just because an actor or company are just getting started you shouldn't ever work with them...but, it is something you should definitely be mindful of. Unless you're desperate (either on the casting scene or the looking for a gig scene), you should definitely take someone's experience into consideration.

You have to pay your dues...both as an actor, and as a production company. Work your way up.

This isn't always the case...I mean, Cera and I worked on a production recently with a brand new production company (Optic Sugar)...they are actually a motion graphics firm, and recently decided to start making films. They had heard about us as local actors and asked us to be in the film without an audition. Well, Cera and I decided to take a chance on them because we heard good things about them, and their website was slicker than David Hasslehoff's chest in the Summer...so we took the job. Turns out they had insanely good equipment, tons of people on set doing their jobs in an orderly, professional manner...and the rough cut we saw weeks later was incredible...totally on the level. So you never know what a company can pull out of their ass. Keep in mind though that Optic Sugar was run by 30 something college grads with serious design skills...so they have an edge (which is why we accepted the gig).

But most of the time, first-time film makers aren't going to produce award winning material...so if you're an actor with a lot of experience, you should steer clear of them. That's not a mean thing to say...that's just a bit of professional advice.

Same thing with an actor. If they don't have an online presence at all (no webpage, online resume, headshot), you're probably not going to find a very skilled thespian behind the name. Pretty much every actor who's serious about their craft, will have some form of online presence (unless you're at the level where your agent is calling you daily and don't need a website or reel). If they don't have an online presence (or very little experience--background work doesn't count), then it may be best to look elsewhere. If you love their look, call them in to audition...if you have the time, why not.

Bringing this back to the topic...little experience greatly increases the likely hood of flakiness--on both the production's end, and the actor's.
 
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M1chae1 said:
This isn't always the case...I mean, Cera and I worked on a production recently with a brand new production company (Optic Sugar)...they are actually a motion graphics firm, and recently decided to start making films. They had heard about us as local actors and asked us to be in the film without an audition. Well, Cera and I decided to take a chance on them because we heard good things about them, and their website was slicker than David Hasslehoff's chest in the Summer...so we took the job. Turns out they had insanely good equipment, tons of people on set doing their jobs in an orderly, professional manner...and the rough cut we saw weeks later was incredible...totally on the level. So you never know what a company can pull out of their ass. Keep in mind though that Optic Sugar was run by 30 something college grads with serious design skills...so they have an edge.
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Yes, but we knew another actor who had worked with them and higly recommended them, and we went to their awesome studio to meet with them and get a private screening of a film that they were working on post on before accepting - it's not like we just jumped in with no background or info on them - even though they were just getting into films, we know that they had their shit together and it was going to be a good production that actually got finished--- it is so important to know what you're getting into before accepting an offer, and this time it did work out very well -- othertimes (like the film where we met that started shooting 2 years ago and still isn't done shooting yet) we maybe should have done more research on them before signing on, but now that we're in it, we're committed to it and are still working with them to finish it even when 4 of the other main actors have dropped out....
 
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CeraGraves said:
(like the film where we met that started shooting 2 years ago and still isn't done shooting yet) we maybe should have done more research on them before signing on, but now that we're in it, we're committed to it and are still working with them to finish it even when 4 of the other main actors have dropped out....
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Ahhh...what a great story. Bad production, but we both not only met each other, we met some really cool people in the process. It was (is) totally worth it in this rare and special case.

A perfect example of how sometimes sacrificing can lead to bigger and better things.
 
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Next year you can make a 30 min documentary film about how hard it is to find actors. That should be easy enough. Plus you can really portray the amount of self devotion and determination it takes to survive in the film world.
 
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C.Adley said:
Next year you can make a 30 min documentary film about how hard it is to find actors. That should be easy enough. Plus you can really portray the amount of self devotion and determination it takes to survive in the film world.
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I'm definitely sensing sarcasm...

Was something said that you didn't like? Or am I misreading you?
 
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That sucks, that happened to me a couple times as well. However, It can go both ways. I have had Directors who couldnt get there shit together. I refered this guy to a few actors that i went to school with who didn't mind acting and playing any part. So i set them up and told him he was a good guy and that the shoot shouldnt take much longer than two hours (according to the director). We get the bar where the shoot was suppose to take place, and no director was to be found. I had set everything up for him and he showed up two hours late. On top of that, his two hour shoot turned into a five hour shoot because he was unorganized. No script, no planned shots, just a bunch of pictures that he drew. I go to school with this guy now and would never refer him to anyone. Now because of him, I have now ruined my own reputation and have to convince them that i do have a good word. It all has to do with being proffesional. It goes both ways.
 
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No, nothing was said that I didnt like. One of my good friends is a director and he to has a hard time finding actors as devoted to the film as he is. Everything is set up and ready to shoot, but no actors or at least not all of them. It is hard to find those who are determined, thats why I'm saying make a documentary about your experience trying to film a film. It takes someone with a lot of determination to deal with that kind of crap. It should be easy to portray that theme with undetermined actors.

No sarcasm, I just needed to explain myself more.

:0)
 
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C.Adley said:
No, nothing was said that I didnt like. One of my good friends is a director and he to has a hard time finding actors as devoted to the film as he is. Everything is set up and ready to shoot, but no actors or at least not all of them. It is hard to find those who are determined, thats why I'm saying make a documentary about your experience trying to film a film. It takes someone with a lot of determination to deal with that kind of crap. It should be easy to portray that theme with undetermined actors.

No sarcasm, I just needed to explain myself more.

:0)
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Well, then have Michael and I come out to be part of your film! :) j/k But we are devoted to whatever we sign on to.
 
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I know determined and committed actors are out there. You two may be some of the few I have ever encountered.:lol: I am just exaggerating. I know there are lots of great actors that are very serious to what they commit to.:yes: I am here in Omaha (pop around 1 mil). Lots of actors to choose from, but not too many of them seem to have the commitment level you two have.

You should fly out here, we could use some people like you!:)
 
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Actors are just like everyone else. Some good, some bad.

When I was looking for actresses to play prostitutes in Us Sinners, I received over a hundred headshots. I asked about ten of them if they'd like to do a bit part and they were fine with faking a BJ, but when they heard that a condom was going to be dropped in their mouth after they were dead, they all backed out. Finally one brave soul agreed, she was a trooper.

Another actress had a speaking prostitute role and we bent over backward to accommodate her. I even paid her because she was very good. We didn't have a release for her to sign at the time of shooting, and later on when we asked her to sign, she refused. We had to reshoot her scene.

Yeah some actors are flaky, but good ones are professional, it's what they love to do.
 
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I have acted on student films several times, always for free. It was an interesting experience, and always nice to work with semiprofesional equipment.

I make my own films but my equipment is low budget.

Most of the time the students are badly prepared, the script is poor and delivered the day before. Still the "director" pretended (every time) that I said the lines EXACTLY as written. I understand why is that, but if he/she had written a better script, with sentences that make sense, and delivered a few days in advance, then I would have learnt my lines perfectly.

Also there is no clear planning, last time it took 5 hours, since I arrived to the set, to shoot 1.5 min scene. And it wasn't that complicated scene.

As actors we know that we need to wait for a long time to get things ready, but we are also people, so take that into account when you are scheduling the times.

Also if you didn't really do a casting, don't pretend the actor to deliver the role as you imagined it. Actors will give it a new dimension, probably more realistic than your imagination, as well as more limited as we might not be the best actors that are in the market.

Also don't ask for whatever. There are scenes that non paid actors will not do.

In summary:
- Look professional. have a backup.
- Plan properly and tell the actors when to come
- Release the script, reviewed, as soon as possible
- Offer food and drinks :-)
 
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