getting started / ~ 5k budget / Need expert advice

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Snake1264

Hello indietalk forum, so after researching on my own for a while ive finally decided to ask for some help and basically try and get a couple experienced people to get me on my way. Basically I want someone to guide me through all my equipment purchasing needs, giving me advice on what to get, etc.... So Basically I am going to go through a list of things I have already put together myself, and my questions on what I need to add, change, etc... And for the record i am doing film work (fiction, short films) not documentaries or anything like that

1: canon t3i ~ $800 ( after a lot of research ive decided on this dslr camera over the 5dmk2. While i know the 5d is a better camera it doesnt seem worth it to me to spend the extra money for it. Im not saying its out of my budget but it would definitely stretch my wallet more. This being said if a more experienced person here convinces me to get the 5d over the t3i i will listen)

2 prime canon ef 35mm f 1.4l lens ~$1400 (this is basically the only thing im sure of when it comes to what i want to buy. But that doesnt mean im not open for different suggestions)

3: memory card ( i have no idea which ones the best for recording video onto for a t3i)

4: Mic/Audio ( this is also a category that im clueless on. I want an external system obviously, but other than that i dont know what to get. I dont want to spend over 500 dollars on audio stuff however, yet i want something that is pretty professional that the average person wouldnt be able to tell the difference between it and something that a real studio uses. I dont even really know if i need a boom, or a shotgun... im very clueless so when it comes to audio please explain things like im a 2 year old)


5: Stabilization ( this area im kind of confused about. People seem to always say get a tripod before anything but it seems that steadicam and glidecam systems can do everything a tripod can do and more. I want a stabilization system that pretty much can do anything I want to do within reason. Sliding shots is something i definitely want to do but it seems from what im reading that neither a tripod or a steadicam/glidecam can do these? Or do i need some type of slider to go on the tripod? OR is a slider something seperate entirely? I am willing to spend as much as i need on stablization/tools that move the camera.


6. All the miscelaneous accessories ( matte box, lcd screen, basically anything you can think of that i havent already mentioned... Please let me know everything important that I would need, and which ones are the best. There may be things I need that i dont even know about in this misc section so please be as descriptive as possible.

7. lighting (ppl say you can get by without much artifical lighting with dslrs, but im sure there are some fundamental lighting stuff i need... im pretty clueless when it comes to lighting as well)


This is everythign I can think of for now, please let me know the best stuff to get for each category while keeping budget in mind. If the budged needs to stretch a little thats fine. And if i missed anything essential please let me know.
 
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1. I'd recommend looking at getting a GH2 instead. While the T3i is a nice camera, the GH2 resolves more detail and has the ability to mount pretty much any lens with the capability of covering the sensor.

2. I'd then build a set vintage Nikon lenses; you could easily get a 24mm, 28mm, 35mm, and 50mm for the price you're spending on the Canon 35mm.

3. SanDisk class 10 cards are what I use.

4. Paying so much on the camera and skimping on audio is stupid. People will watch something with a sub-par image if it has good audio; not even the most beautiful image will cover up bad audio. I'd recommend a Tascam DR-100 and a Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Mic kit as a bare-bones kit. Alcove Audio is the resident Audio Guru, so if he comes in and gives advice, you should probably take it.

5. Most of your shots should be on a tripod, especially starting out. A glidecam or flycam or other stabilizer is in no way a replacement for a tripod; it's a completely different tool. Sliders and shoulder mounts are also different tools. You wouldn't use a wrench to hammer a nail; the same goes for each of these. Starting out I'd recommend going for a tripod with a fluid head and a Flycam Nano or something similar. Just be aware the Flycam Nano and other stabilizers can be a pain to calibrate.

7. Just because DSLRs can handle low light situations does not mean you don't need a good lighting kit and lighting skills. If you want your footage to look cinematic you absolutely need lighting. I'd very much recommend ordering Lighting for Film and Television. It's essentially a six hour crash course in how lighting works and the ways you can use it. For a starter light kit, this Arri Fresnel kit is pretty great. It's a bit pricey, but good lights last pretty much forever; much longer than the camera will. They also tend to hold their resale value. I'm sure someone else will come in and detail a cheaper kit if you don't want to spend so much there.
 
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Snake1264 said:
I want something that is pretty professional that the average person wouldnt be able to tell the difference between it and something that a real studio uses.
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Oh, that's all you want for $500? Sorry, it's not going to happen. A true professional set-up starts at about $10k and can go up to $100k or more.

Keep in mind that your projects will only look as good as they sound.

You can get a nice prosumer set-up for about $1,500 and achieve semi-pro for about $2,500.

For a prosumer set-up an audio recorder is going to eat up most of your $500. An entry level shotgun mic is around $200, an entry level cardioid mic is another $150. Now add in a boom-pole, shock-mount, headphones, cables, cases, wind protection and other accessories and you've hit $1,500.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Tascam+-+BP-L2&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359043-REG/sE_Electronics_SE1A_SE1A_Small_Diaphragm.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

Even more important than the gear is the skill with which you operate the gear and swing the boom. You have a lot of learning and practicing to do.
 
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well firstly, id like to thank you for introducing me to B&H, it seems like this is where everyone gets their equipment? Or is amazon still cheaper? Anyways the audio suggestions are great, i am easily willing to spend 1500 if thats what it takes to have decent audio. Ill wait to hear more suggestions on exactly which kits to buy before i make my mind. The tripod stuff im still very confused on. There seems like there are so many types of tripods and they vary so greatly in price. And what addons do i need for the tripod? Lastly, ive read alot about the GH2 but ive also seen many people say getting a canon is better. So im gonna wait and see what otheres think about this subject. I hope the great advice keeps coming!!!! Im literally just a sponge at this point trying to soak up knowledge.... And if you are wondering why i seem like such a newbie its because i am... I just recently "retired" after selling off some internet marketing assets and now im just focusing on my passion... which is film :)

still looking for suggestions on my 6th point which was basic accessories like a matte box lcd screen, etc...
 
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I think we'd be more useful to you if you'd let us know what your overall budget for your film is -- was that $5,000 for the entire film or just for the equipment?

Yes, sound is VERY IMPORTANT but can be done cheaply, and yes, BH Photo Video is the place to go, especially buying used cameras. I would not buy used cameras (in most instances) at Amazon.com -- other stuff, maybe. Cameras, no.
 
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well i was thinking 5k just for my equipment, as who really knows how much money the film will eat up overtime. I could see myself spending 10-20k on the film, but none of that is set in stone yet

o and i forgot to mention post production software. I already have adobe premiere pro cs5.5, and the other parts of the suite... I assume adobe perfectly fine if not one of the best posts production solutions atm?
 
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The GH2 is an EVIL camera, which is essentially a DSLR without the R. The R stands for reflex, which is referring to the mirror that would reflect an image through the optical viewfinder. The mirror would reflex, or move out of the way when the shutter is pressed and a still photo is taken. As the mirror has to stay out of the way for video, an optical viewfinder doesn't work in video mode. In theory this makes EVIL and DSLR cameras equal in video mode. The main difference is that the only widespread EVIL format is m4/3, while DSLRs have APS-C and Full Frame. M4/3 has a sensor slightly smaller than APS-C, but they are very close. Both M4/3 and APS-C dwarf traditional video sensors. In turn, the Full Frame 5dm2 sensor dwarfs the M4/3 and APS-C sensors.

So comparing the GH2 with the T3i, the sensor size is very similar. Where the GH2 wins out is video processing. The Canon family of DSLRs has some bad moire and aliasing issues. While all CMOS cameras suffer these, the GH2 handles it far better. Check out the video in this article. That's from a Canon 60D, but all of the Canon DSLRs have the same processing. While that's an extreme example, moire and aliasing is something that does happen.
 
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hmmm..... have you seen the great dslr camera shootout by zacuto films? I watched this and from their results it seems like the canons performed better. Do you think this review was biased? You can find this video on youtube, but its a multi part hour or so long review of all dslrs and how they stand up next to traditional film. Ive pretty much based my purchase of the canon on this review
 
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Snake1264 said:
hmmm..... have you seen the great dslr camera shootout by zacuto films? I watched this and from their results it seems like the canons performed better. Do you think this review was biased? You can find this video on youtube, but its a multi part hour or so long review of all dslrs and how they stand up next to traditional film. Ive pretty much based my purchase of the canon on this review
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Yes, I have watched it. They didn't even include the Panasonic GH2, which caused some outrage on certain forums.
 
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Snake1264 said:
id like to thank you for introducing me to B&H, it seems like this is where everyone gets their equipment? Or is amazon still cheaper?
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You can find things cheaper, but you will not get same the service you will get at B&H. In the long run working with a regular vendor has its benefits. They will have all of your records, so at a glance can verify equipment compatibility, you get discount specials and there are other benefits. In 2007 my studio was flooded. Of course, all of my paper records were there too. I was able to contact B&H, who handles all my field audio and video gear, and Sweetwater, my vendor of choice for studio gear, and obtain copies of all of my receipts for insurance purposes. They also cut me a few nice deals to get me back into business.


Just a reminder...


Even more important than the gear
is the skill with which you operate the gear and swing the boom.​


BTW, this applies to all other aspects of filmmaking. Extensive, exhaustive preproduction, while seemingly a real PITA, will save you hours of wasted production time and give you much better footage and sound for the ppost process.
 
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Snake1264 said:
well i was thinking 5k just for my equipment, as who really knows how much money the film will eat up overtime. I could see myself spending 10-20k on the film, but none of that is set in stone yet
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Now that I understand more what you're doing, let me suggest you shouldn't pay more than a few thousand bucks on a short.

I'd suggest practicing your techniques on lower cost equipment making a short or two. After that you'll know exactly what you'll want for your bigger production.

If you proceed now, you'll get oversold by techies and undersold on the things you really need to know. Great or impeccably selected equipment does not make a great film.

All this is just my opinion though.

Good luck.
 
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thanks for all the comments. I agree will all your opinions. However im still confused on a few technical notes such as: do i need a mattebox? what tripod should i get? and what stuff should i get with the tripod? because in videos i always see a slide type thing on a tripod. I dont think this is a real slide, but it allows for small slidemovements
 
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Many great films are made without matte boxes! Getting a matte box is something you'll perhaps need towards the end of your learning curve. Low budget filmmakers find other means to make do.

A FLUID HEAD tripod is what you need. Again, tripods can be pricey, but great films have been made with low cost equipment. A tripod is a good item to get used, then check it out throughly after you get it.
 
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Do you have any fluid head tripods you could recommend? I don't want something so cheap that it's bad, and I don't need the most amazing one either. Just one that a lot of people like to use and is moderately priced. Also what is the little slider thing called that I see people having on their tripod.
 
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Snake1264 said:
Do you have any fluid head tripods you could recommend? I don't want something so cheap that it's bad, and I don't need the most amazing one either. Just one that a lot of people like to use and is moderately priced. Also what is the little slider thing called that I see people having on their tripod.
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The slider thing is a "quick release" for the camera so you don't have to screw and unscrew the the camera from the tripod each time you set it up.

I bought a "house brand" tripod at BH PhotoVideo and served me well. It might have been $150, perhaps less. I cannot make a recommendation on a specific brand fluid head, but whether used or new, check it immediately to see if it will do a smooth pan and stay exactly where you stop panning (I'm thinking no more than $250-300 for a new one). After you've done a few films with a low cost set up, you'll know exactly whether or not you'll want to upgrade to the spendy stuff.

The advantage of a low cost tripod is that you'll be more willing to stick it in sand, mud, or water to get that great shot you wouldn't dare do with a $1K tripod. The other advantage, of course, is if you need to toss it while running from a rent-a-cop. (This is another useful purpose of the slider thing.)

In my case, I found bean bags more useful in many situations, that I bought a couple and relied less on a tripod.
 
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You can get cheaper ones, or make one yourself for under $100. They're very nice to have, and are a lot easier to set up and use when compared to an actual dolly. Sure, great films have been made without one, but little tools like this can add immensely to the perceived production value of your project. It's certainly not something you need starting out, but it can be a nice luxury.
 
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yes this pocket dolly is exactly what i was talking about. I know you guys are trying to keep me from spending too much because im an amateur and I understand. But at the same time I have visions of my scenes and i feel like the only way to get the shots i want are with certain little tools like this pocket dolly for example. For example im coming up with a scene in my head right now and im picturing the scene starting out with an overhead view and coming down, which means i need a jib...... It just sucks that at the beginning I have to limit what type of scenes i can do because of my limitations in equipment. Thats why im really trying to get as many types of these tools as i can, without over spending and getting things that arent necessary at all.

So far it seems that a decent tripod, pocket dolly, and some steadicam stablizier type thing is enough to do most of what i need. I wish I could have a jib but i think I would really only need one or two scenes that require it so im gonna work around that for now. Hell i would love to have scenes like the opening scene of the graduate where the camera just rolls for a long time along with a person, but that would require some crazy type of dolly/track.... haha
 
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