General Directing Advice Wanted

I have been making films ever since I was ten years old (short, crappy films, and I've had two very long hiatuses during this time) and I am now fifteen. Although I have been making films for all of this time, I think only recently I have seriously think about directing and what importance it has to the films.

But what importance does it have to the film? I would really like some advice in regards to directing, so that I can improve.

I never really thought of my films visually. As long as you could see what you needed to see, right? I often didn't have time to thoroughly direct a scene and make it looks beautiful. Furthermore, I was always darting back and forth between setting up the camera and then acting in the film itself - this is what happens when you're fifteen and trying to make films with a bunch of reluctant friends. Now, I am trying to think of my films more visually. It's hard with the restrictions I have - time, people, resources, no professional lighting, less than ideal sets... but I want to improve how my films look.

My brother, who also makes films, once said to me my films don't look like films. They look like videos. I want them to look more like films. I understand how different angles can evoke different emotions in the viewer. It's just finding how to use these in my own films. What I tend to write are comedy-dramas - it's all very vague. There's no set genre for my films. A lot of the scenes are people sitting around talking. How can I make this more interesting? Movement seems key - having the characters move around the set and interact with objects and one another. But I find it hard to use this in my films. Furthermore, I find it difficult to not use a close-up or a mid-shot for every line of dialogue, then to cut back and forth between the actors. I always think of films in terms of the script first, then the direction second. I try to have every line have significance, to have a slight "punch" to it. Therefore I get the feeling that if I don't use a mid-shot or a close-up for certain lines of dialogue, people miss them. But I use this far too frequently, and I need to stop.

Woody Allen films are often a whole lot of talking and not much else. And when I say Woody Allen films, I really just mean "Annie Hall" and "Manhattan". But they still look visually great. Is this to do with the direction specifically, or just due to the environment they were filmed in, the tall interesting buildings of New York?

What I really want to do is use depth of focus, where I can either blur out the foreground of background so the viewer can focus on what I want them to focus on. However, I'm using a relatively cheap HD Digital Camera, which cannot do this.

It's all very confusing. I really need some direction when it comes to directing. I need to improve.

So, for those who skip to the end of the post instead of reading the entire thing, I'll make it simple:
How do I become a better director? And how do I direct conversation scenes, where people are just sitting around, and make them look interesting?

I'm going to post some examples of my work so that people can understand what I mean.

This is the first part of Dateless Losers, the last film in my "traditional" style that I made (although my style has developed and become more sophisticated since, I reckon). You can probably see what I mean about most of it being just conversations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGUrtWxuwPE

This is Snakes in a House, the most recent film I have finished. It's only a short flick, and it's a lot more surreal and "action packed" than previous things I've done. But, whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC3MkgCeFYw

So advice on directing would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Dim.
 
There are a lot of people on here who will give better advice than I can, but I can make a few suggestions:

1.) You need to recognise that what you're making are amateur short films, most of which you are acting in yourself and that there are real limitations to what you can do. Sure it would be nice to work with 'angles' and 'lighting' but if you don't have the lighting equipment or the rigs of DoP to work with then it's unrealistic to demand too much of yourself on set.

2.) As a result of point one, a lot of the work that you can do is going to happen in post production. For instance take the phone scene in Dateless Losers. The editing there could be more snappy, cutting between the two of them and showing other things. There is also a benefit to recording the sound seperately, because it was really difficult to hear exactly what was being said in that scene. There was also a moment where your shot was just of the actor's back, which just doesn't look that great. Also in post you can make the film look more like a film. People always want to know how to get 'That Look', and there's no one answer, but I would recommend turning down the saturation a little bit and playing with the contrast.

3.) It will all become easier once you have actors working with you. Directing actors is empowering for a director as well as being essential to producing a good film. I don't know what equipment you are filming with at the moment, but put out an ad on Craigslist or Talent Circle for actors to work on your next film. Getting outsiders would be really useful. Although you must stipulate that you're only 15 and a keen amateur.

4.) Use less Razorlight :P

I'm sure other people will have better suggestions, but the one that I'm best qualified to talk about is the acting. You need to get the actors (including yourself) to have greater confidence in what they're doing and saying. Take this Woody Allen scene as an example (it's one of my favourites). Fundamentally it's four people speaking, but with an amzing script and performances and great imagination you get a wonderful scene. Just watch Woody and Diane Keaton's facial expressions throughout- that is what you need to get from your actors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIYz8tfGjY
 
Any chance you can post the link to that scene by itself? Videos never seem to want to play for me on this forum when they are embedded.

My brother gave me stick for that shot of Ryan with his back facing the camera - what I was trying to do was get a sense of Ryan's room, and compare it's neat and tidiness to Brendon's messy bedroom. But that probably wasn't the best way to show it -_- Note to self: Never do that ever again.

And as for Razorlight, I'm not a big fan of them personally. It's just I wanted to use "In The Morning" and then the other song I used (which I cannot remember) just seemed to fit the way I wanted to cut the scene together, with the moving camera cutting to close-ups of certain objects around Brendon's room in time with the music.
 
If anyone has the power to delete my above post, then please do. Accidentally quoted myself and nothing else.

Here's the link, it's not showing up for me either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIYz8tfGjY

If you want to show the contrast then you could have the camera looking over the guys shoulder into his room whilst he's on the phone. With a narrow aperture you can get a good shot of the room, without being focused on the guy in front.
 
It sounds like what you need is a cinematographer, or classes/lessons/plain-ol-practice in cinematography -- framing the shot, how the camera should move, how the lighting is set up, etc... -- just using a shallow DOF all the time won't do it, and for many shots a shallow DOF won't give you the results you want.

Good cinematography makes all the difference in the world.

The second item, editing, stems from shooting the same scene from many different angles and setups, even just for talking scenes. Good editing will take your film from "home video" to "actual for really-real movie". Good editing + good cinematography will make your movies actually look like movies.

I've only done one project recently, Adam Funn, but we shot that with a camera operator who really knows his stuff, and we shot many, many takes of each scene (12 hours of footage total for a 25-minute film).

If you look at the how the coffee-shop conversation is cut, you'll see we did several over-the-shoulder angles for each actor (varying the distance the camera was from the actors), a full-view side shot, a few close-up cut-away angles, and switched from telephoto to wide-angle for the last few lines. We shot this at 2am so all the lighting you see is artificial. Each light was carefully placed by our cinematographer to get the look we wanted. The edits are placed to allow us to cut in the best line deliveries while also trying to retain a sense of flow to the scene and to keep it from being too "static" or boring.

Another scene to deconstruct is the "big empty room" shot. It's one long shot, but we switched to full wide angle, placed the camera low to the ground, and pushed in slowly via our short dolly track, all to try to make the room a large and as ominous as possible. We also shot a lot of other angles to cut together, but that one long shot turned out to be the only one we needed. The point? Shoot way more footage than you'll actually use in the film because you don't always know ahead of time which takes you'll be using.

Aaaand now I'm rambling, but you get the idea.


Edit: So I watched some of your youtube clips and see you already know most of this stuff, you just need to get better at it, and this will simply happen naturally the more you practice. I'd recommend getting a simple steadycam/glidecam rig (even a cheap one will do) and also build a dolly track setup (PVC pipe, plywood, skateboard wheels -- there are plans for these out there on the internets) to get some more sophisticated camera movement.

For indoor shots you need to work on your fill lighting. This will get rid of about 90% of that "video look" you're complaining about. :)
 
Last edited:
Woody Allen films are often a whole lot of talking and not much else. And when I say Woody Allen films, I really just mean "Annie Hall" and "Manhattan". But they still look visually great. Is this to do with the direction specifically, or just due to the environment they were filmed in, the tall interesting buildings of New York?
You could take your camera (or even a top of the line
35mm Arri or Panasonic) to Manhattan and not get the
tall, interesting buildings to look that good. Do not dismiss
the talent and experience of the amazing Gordon Willis
who shot both those films.

One thing you can do is learn to light well or find someone
who is interested in learning to light well to work with. Shallow
depth of field is important to getting that "film" look, but you
can also get a great look with excellent lighting and audio.
Amazing how important good sound is to the look of a movie.


So, for those who skip to the end of the post instead of reading the entire thing, I'll make it simple:
How do I become a better director? And how do I direct conversation scenes, where people are just sitting around, and make them look interesting?
Two things you will notice in the two Allen films you mention
are the great actors and the amazing scripts. He and Willis actually
light sparingly and shoot long takes with very little cutting. A
great way to shoot conversations. But the script and actors have
a LOT to do with that remaining interesting.

How you become a better director is to direct more. Try different
things. How about this:

Write a conversation scene where people are just sitting around
and shoot it three different way. Try things that seem crazy, try
things that spark your interest but may not work. Then find
different actors and shoot it three different ways for a total of six.

Use lighting differently in the shoots - use more and then less
camera movement. Do one with a lot of cuts, one with almost
no cuts and a few with a middle ground.
 
The second item, editing, stems from shooting the same scene from many different angles and setups, even just for talking scenes........

There are exceptions to the rule. Hitchcock already had the film "edited" before he would even start shooting. Selznick would complain about Hitchcocks "damned puzzles" as Hitchcocks films could only be cut one way.
 
First of all, as is so often the case, I find myself echoing directorik -- writing and acting are the most important aspects to make any dialogue worth watching. In this respect, I feel like it's often the director's job to not get in the way.

Thing is, though, to answer your general question, in a general way -- the buck stops with you, man. What importance does directing have to a film? Uhhhh...EVERYTHING, dude!

It is the director's job to make decisions. Lots of them. Pertaining to everything. On a professional set, there's lots of delegation, but there's still somebody calling all the shots. On an ultra-low-budget set, the director doesn't delegate nearly as much as he/she would like to, and wears lots of hats. Either way, every major decision lies in your hands.

My opinion -- escher mentioned you should learn cinematography, and I agree that the basics are a great place to start. I really like this easy-to-read super-informative book, and it's really inexpensive:

http://www.amazon.com/Bare-Bones-Camera-Course-Video/dp/0960371818

I think you've got a knack for comedic-timing. Best wishes.
 
There are exceptions to the rule. Hitchcock already had the film "edited" before he would even start shooting. Selznick would complain about Hitchcocks "damned puzzles" as Hitchcocks films could only be cut one way.

There are definitely exceptions to the rule. I like to get as much coverage as possible, but my time is limited, so for me it's a question of how much coverage I can get in this limited amount of time.

Let's also not forget about cutaways. Really important, at this level of filmmaking, in my opinion.

Honestly, though, I feel like talk of coverage is talking over the head of our OP. Yeah, it's a simple concept, but there are many simple concepts I think he should practice before working on this one.

Compose a shot. A single stationary shot. That's where I think he should start his journey.
 
Like becoming skilled at anything, it's a process, and the surest way is one step at a time. Pick on aspect of the film
"I want to be more creative in my shot selection"
"I want to put together cheap DIY light rig and learn to use it"
"I want to capture bettter sound"
and make that the focus of a film. Don't forget everything else and ONLY worry about that, but decide "this time I am really going to work on this"

I have actually incorporated some of the "five obstructions" concepts into my filmmaking (as much as I may make fun of lars Von trier). I wanted to get better at shooting in a confined space, and not being able to use true "Master" shots very much, so I shot an entire film in a 12' X 15' room.
 
Last edited:
I'm in the same boat as you. i have a poor excuse for a camera, almost no lighting equipment, zero audio equipment, and friends who are not even close to being as interested in film as i am. I would love to be able to shoot every scene from multiple angles take the times to set up shots and get them right before moving on but my friends/actors don't have the patience or willingness to help. I find it difficult to get them to deliver lines consistantly seeing as they frequently go off script and goof around so i often give in. I'll find myself setting a camera down putting theme in frame getting my shot and moving on with little thought put into it. oftentimes i'm not even working with a complete script but instead a vague outline that i let the actors fill in they are good at improvisation but that means only getting one shot at a scene when it works.

working with no equipment and a bad cast/limited to no crew is a major challenge. What i've been trying to do lately is put more effort into my pre-production specificaly storyboarding having an idea of what you want the scene to look like before you shoot it is a big help when you can't shoot it from multiple angles. For directing conversation i've been watching alot of movies and paying special attention to conversation scenes making note of things i like so i can use them myself to spice up my conversation. i still struggle with making my video look like film and probably will for a long time i think in the end it comes down to practice. hopefully this helps. like i said i'm a totaly amateur like yourself this is just what i'm doing to try to improve. I would like to also pose a question to everyone as long as i'm writing. Do you have any tricks or tips for envisioning a scene before you shoot? i always try to construct the shots in my head with story boarding but it's often inneffectual seeing as a can't draw at all and i don't have the time to experiment on set.
 
But what importance does it have to the film? I would really like some advice in regards to directing, so that I can improve.

I never really thought of my films visually. As long as you could see what you needed to see, right? I often didn't have time to thoroughly direct a scene and make it looks beautiful.


I think you might be confusing "directing" with "producing", which on most no budget movies is the same thing, but as for the artistry of directing, it's telling a story with the camera - which means making it look beautiful and tying it all together with the editing.

Because everyone wants the job "director" because that's the sexy title, often times, it gets overlooked that the parts people enjoy the most are the "producer" hat they are wearing.
 
Back
Top