Frustrated with HiDef

I'm prepping my fourth shoot on HD as a cinematographer, and am looking for other peoples' experiences with shooting this format. With 12 years of experience behind the camera, and having shot tons of film and video, I'm still trying to adjust to this new technology. The different thing about this shoot for me is that it's the first "ultra low budget" project that I'm doing where I'm heavily involved with ordering the camera. The last projects already had the camera packages put together, and they weren't shooting in nearly as complex of situations as this one (lots of night exterior, heavy drama, special effects, two cameras, etc.).

The biggest headache is the cost of the camera equipment. The producers didn't budget near enough for camera, especially since we need two of them. Of course, everyone thinks shooting HD is a lot cheaper than shooting film, but it's just not true, and we're not seeing enormous savings.

Everyone wants to charge full price, and for a three day week. Don't laugh, but my original wish list for two cameras and all the accessories came to $30,000 at Panavision for a five day shoot. They eventually agreed to do the shoot for $8,000 after I amputated a lot of my list, but it's still too much. So now we're going to a small rental house, and I'm not getting much more than a nice ENG package. I'm still fighting for a waveform monitor, but they have to subrent it at a cost of $1200. I can rent an entire 16mm camera package for that much! And not having the waveform is like shooting film without a light meter.

I can understand why some rental houses are charging so much money for this stuff, since it goes out of date faster than film cameras. There are some items that won't, though, like Prime lenses, waveforms, and monitors. Ahhh, the prime lenses. The lenses are my biggest loss on this show, because I have to shoot some large night exteriors, and the Canon zooms I have only open to a 2.1, which is an effective 2.6. At least Panavision's zooms are a stop faster, and are less prone to ugly flares.

Anyway, I'm finding that HD is not the answer when you're shooting short projects, because I could almost shoot this whole thing on 35mm with much more convenient accessories for the same price. At least with 35mm, the producers wouldn't be questioning my need for prime lenses and extension eyepieces. I also wouldn't have to deal with SDI (or a painful lack thereof), component video, and downconverters. And I haven't even mentioned the poorer quality of HD compared to film. No wonder so many DPs are reticent about HD -- it's just making us look bad, and the cost is disappointing.

That said, I'm excited to see how everything goes with the shoot next week. I don't know if I'll agree to shoot another one unless the budget has $5000-$6000 per camera per week, though.

-Graham
 
Retrospect

So here's how everything went, for those that might be interested. From my first post, you can see many of my concerns and difficulties using HD in a true "filmmaking" environment. After five super-long (14-17 hours each) nights, I must say I learned a lot, and found that my hard work in preparation paid off.

We had two HD cameras, rented from Bouquet Multimedia in Los Angeles (Pacific Palisades, actually). They're a small house, and couldn't supply everything I wanted, but they gave us an incredible deal on the cameras ($4000 for both for the 5 days). I persuaded production to rent a waveform monitor, but they couldn't afford extension eyepieces, an extra LCD on-board, and a number of other things I wanted, especially the prime lenses. Oh how I longed for those primes on many an occasion on this shoot.

Here was my camera crew: 2 operators, 2 First AC's, 1 Second AC, 1 Intern.

First scene we set up was in a basement\boiler room of a warehouse. Big space, cool design, quick scene. Guy runs in, falls down, gets knocked out. I set up the cameras and started lighting. The image is way too dark and contrasty, and so I have to light it way bright and high key, even wide open at 0dB gain. I was adding tons of fill light just to get the blacks to fall off nicely. It was getting scary, because every shot was turning into a meal of a lighting setup when it should have been very simple. I used Source 4s on beaver boards bouncing into the ceiling for fill light all around.

For the second scene, a large setup in a big abandoned part of the warehouse, I was using two halogen worklamps as practicals in the shot. I was panicking about it not being enough light, and then my assistants brought out the paintbox. I was scared to touch the paintbox, since I'm not an engineer and don't want to screw things up. Plus, I'd never needed it in the past. And how to match the two cameras? We quickly discovered, though, that the master black setting was set very low, and as we brought it up, it fixed my contrast problem. I could set it where I wanted, without washing out the blacks, and then save the setting on the memory stick (we had to ask for the memory stick in prep -- thank God for knowkledgable camera assistants!). Then I could take the memory stick and recall the settings on the B-camera.

The cameras were still quite slow, about 200-250ASA, and required a lot of light. I was shooting wide-open (2.1 to 2.3), and had to throw lots of light at the scene. At least I could use less fill light now. I was having difficulties with the waveform, though, and it caused the monitor to gain up and the colors to be incorrect. Maybe it was a termination problem, but it didn't seem like one, and I had no way to terminate it anyway, since there's no switch and I wasn't given BNC terminators. I'm not an engineer, but I'm not completely useless when it comes to video, and neither were my assistants. After lots of work, it still wasn't happening, so I felt better off without it. What a waste of money! I'm still not confident about the exposure of the images, but the zebras seemed to be OK. I guess we'll see when they get it into an online.

My next huge complaint is working with Steadicam. There's no good way to look at your lighting on the monitor without being plugged into the camera, and of course the Steadicam has stripped the camera down for weight (it's very heavy compared to my Moviecam compact), so there's no eyepiece. I would often take the other camera and set it up for lighting\exposure purposes and then shoot with the Steadicam while watching the poor reception off the Modulus 3000 video transmitter. We didn't even have a real Miranda downconverter, so they had to gerry-rig the whole video transmitter system to the side of the camera. This whole process was very slow and difficult.

I also had a number of problems with BNC cables going bad, and maybe it was the connectors inside the 20" monitors. We had a great monitor cart built out of my large camera assistant's cart, and I had the grips rig a 12x12 frame overhead with several solids on it so I could work in a blackened tent with no glare problems. This was also a big deal, since it's impossible to really see the images without it. And we were working at night!

Another bug was I had pixels go out occasionally. We "checked the gate" after each take by closing the aperture and looking at the monitors for blue\white pixels that had gone dead. The fix is to black-balance the camera a bunch of times until it goes away. Over five days, we had eight or ten instances of dead pixels, and we even had the /3 upgrades on the cameras that is supposed to minimize this.

The rest of the shoot went beautifully, and I'm not unhappy with the final results on the monitor. I mean, it still doesn't handle highlights like film, and it's really cumbersome, but it wasn't too bad. I was able to get 30-50 setups on some of the nights because of the two cameras, but I'd have been much happier shooting 35mm. I don't think the cost would have been too dramatically different, but I gained a lot of experience working on this.

Here are my recommendations to anyone thinking about shooting on HD. 1. Definitely get the best gear possible, and make sure your camera settings are correct (even the framerate could be wrong, as our B-camera came to us set at 30P).
2. You'll need at least one paintbox, and you should get a good demo on how to use it and the memory stick.
3. I recommend having an engineer come in to get you started, even if it's for the first 6-8 hours of your first day. Ideally you could keep him full time to help with the camera shading. These cameras are Super-technical compared to the Digibeta cameras, and while there are good DP's out there, it's not our job to be the engineers. We're supposed to be artists who light and compose cinematic images, and we're not necessarily qualified to tech these cameras.
4. Be cautious when using Steadicam. After doing your takes, I recommend playing the takes back so you can watch them properly on the monitor. I know a lot of people say replaying the images could cause drop-outs, but it's better to know if you need to go again. I'd recommend bringing the Steadicam to the prep (as we did) to make sure everything fits technically.
5. Check for dead pixels.
6. Use SDI instead of Component HD video... it will save a lot of headache.

Here's something that no one has yet to dispute with me. HD is supposed to be cheaper, lighter, and require less lights than film, but I've found that it doesn't live up to any one of those aspects. It's an expensive, heavy, complicated camera that's slower and contrastier than film. Oh, and I heard the F-950s are coming soon, so everyone's going to have to spend more money to upgrade\replace their F-900s lest no one will rent them because they've become electronic boat anchors.

I'm happy to give any advice on HD, or film, especially from the perspective of a cinematographer. Feel free to contact me. Good luck!

-Graham
 
Thanks very much for those posts. They were very informative. I feel your pain. I've done 3 shoots on HD, and only on the last one did I get the chance to do what I will ALWAYS try to do, and that is replace one camera assistant position (No loader required) with a video tech. Until I learn the paintbox and all of the adjustments you can make to the camera, I don't feel that comfortable with them either. I also agree that they are nowhere near as fast, or have the latitude of 500asa stock. For the first two shoots we had down converters, and I felt like I never was looking at what we were really getting. they were more for framing purposes, and I just trusted that there would be enough latitude in post to fix any problems. On the last one we had a large Hi-def monitor (which is the price of a small car to rent) and I really liked being able to actually see the image. They are a pain to wire up, but I'll try and do it that way from now on. I love film, and right now the cost is not that different, but I must admit that the final resulyt of these shoots was impressive. The images were stunning, and they do have loads of adjustment capabilities in post (I edided in a Fire suite, a luxury that may not be available to some). I could probably educate myself a bit more on the cameras, because like it or not, that's the way things are going. Thanks again for the posts.
 
what

what type of hd cameras were both of you using?
Im just curious because some of the shots taken from the sony cinealta look stunning, i actually think i like the look better than film.
It makes you feel like your there in the film.
 
FP-900 cameras is what I used. I have not used them with the Panavision lenses though. I just used the video lenses ( a 5.2 wide angle, and a regular 15 to 1 I believe.) but you're right, the visuals were stunning. I won't say bertter than film, but comperable. It is the way of the future, and as the camera systems get cheaper (when the 950 becomes available, 900's will be dirt cheap) and more streamlined, it will only get better.

Edit. speaking of the F-950, I just found this. http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feature/20030516/index.html

Very interesting.
 
nice info...

Graham:

thanks for the two posts here...always fun and entertaining (and informative) to read what the cinematographer has to go through...

i feel your pain with the HD...I have been shooting straight-to-video movies on DVCAM and 16mm for the past two years...

5 are in blockbuster now and five more on the way...we also try to push for 16mm on these small budgets because (believe it or not) we can move faster with 16mm and shoot more stuff...and of course it all looks great...

and on the last DVCAM movie ("The Legend of Diablo") I was able to get a tape-to-tape session through a DaVinci for the final master...it hepled out tremdously...

neal l. fredericks
 
I would like to offer my services to anyone shooting HD and hopefully make your lives a bit easier. I own a very complete Panasonic HD package, I do not rent this out unless I go with it. This means everything works and is in great shape. The Panasonic Varicam is lighter than the Sony & it comes standard with SDI out. I have all the film style aks. Check out www.visionsoflightinc.com for package information. I am a Director of Photography but will offer my services to other DP's as Digital Imaging Tech with my package.
 
Joseph,

I'll definitely keep you in mind. I just did another HD shoot with the Sony, this time with a set of Zeiss primes and the 35mm adapter. This gave us the shallow depth of field that the Director wanted for this shoot. We had a couple of Hi-Def monitors on the set, and the camera paintbox, and the shoot went very well. But I still need to learn more about the settings workings of the camera, and definitely would have liked a set of scopes even though the commercial looks stunning. Also, the SDI out on the Panasonic would save them renting a deck for the transfer to the Fire. I'll definitely contact you when another HD shoot comes up.
 
Fascinating reports gents.

While I have not worked with HD, I am always interested in knowing the ins and outs of the new tech that will shape our films. Last night I watched a piece on some cable outlet on George Lucas whom now is apparently shooting all of his stuff on HD to make it that much easier to do the 20+ SFX postproduction shots required for Star Wars EP II etc. He seems to love it, and loves the convenience that it allows him in post production but similar to what you mentioned Graham, he wouldn't touch the "is it less expensive" question with a 10 foot pole, and for good reason.

Having shot on both DV and Digital-8, I am shocked however to learn of your problems with finding adequate contrast for low-level shots, because even my crappy 4 or 5 year old Sharp digi-cam finds plenty of light in those situations. Obviously the next step up for me, being professional Sony or Panasonic equipment (maybe even HD), it really makes me consider getting a bit more planning in pre-production to "fix" these silly problems that Digital was supposed to fix anyways. And after reading filmmaker's report I'm concerned about being on the set without renting an LCD (or buying) because I don't want to have to fix every low level shot in post production. Sigh.

Maybe I'll jst stick with the original plan to shoot my docu type stuff in 1/2 with cheap DV that I have now and the drama with 16 or 35, and save the HD stuff when I've got the investors whom don't mind paying for that technology and everything it entails (including engineer).

I also echo the comments that it is very refreshing to read some technical information coming from experienced DP's.

EDIT: holy crap I didn't realize how old this post was! :roll:
 
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