Frame rate & Iso for DSLR

Let me know if I got this wrong...

frame rate setting on DSLR determines how blurry fast action would record.

&

iso setting mainly used to compensate lighting situation. ie using high iso for low light. & using native iso reduces noise.

Am I horribly wrong about this?

Also, is there an adaptor or filter for decreasing DOF? I had 28mm w/ fully open apature, and it wasnt shallow enough; I guess it's not just possible w/ wide angle lens?
 
This is "amateur hour"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHTnPlRJVg

Tsk, tsk. Methinks you should choose your words more carefully. I think you're perhaps exaggerating the described effect. In the movies you tossed in the trash, there were probably many reasons why they sucked; I personally doubt shutter-speed was the main issue in any of them.
 
Ok, you're right, there were many reasons they sucked.
If the crappy cinematography had been surrounded by stellar acting and an amazing script I probably would have watched the whole thing, but I still probably wouldn't have picked it to screen. It's no less offense IMO than a boom in every other shot, or really bad sound, or terrible lighting. It's a major, major, mistake. Something they should have gone home, seen in the dailies, and said "Shit, we have to reshoot the whole thing". It's something you just can't be satisfied with. I threw out out over a minute of a dialogue scene in my last film because of a boom shadow we didn't see until we got in the editing process. In hindsight, that dialogue needed to be cut anyway, it tightened the film, but even if it didn't make it a better film I still would have cut it out and made the film work without it because I'm not going to put that on the screen with my name attached to it.
 
I'll just agree with Gonzo and go back to my ever shrinking corner of the world.

:no:

im a little surprised, david. but it may be bc i dont understand exactly wat ur agreeing with.

r u saying the shutter speed should ALWAYS be double of the frame rate?

i think the same way as well, as ive mentioned, but i think ppl should be given the option of and be allowed to use higher frame rates subjectively bc if done sparingly it can sometimes lead to good effect. its rare bc off the top of my head i can count maybe 5 movies where it enhanced the movie instead of hindering. so yes it sux most of the time but i dont think ppl should be told that all they can do is double the frame rate and just take the option away from them bc of that when giving dvice. they should know the option and the option for experimentation should be there.
 
Last edited:
im a little surprised, david. but it may be bc i dont understand exactly wat ur agreeing with.

r u saying the shutter speed should ALWAYS be double of the frame rate?

Yeah, that was vague. The agreement was with Gonzo's comments directly above my post. :D

I typed a sort of opinionated response about the YT clip sample, then realized I was essentially repeating myself. I figure by now CF already knows how I feel about technicals. We've been down that road so I edited my post. Regarding shutter speeds though:

Shutter speed should be set to whatever is appropriate for your image. Why I can't have a true 1/48 shutter at 24fps on some cameras still baffles me to this day. I've used 1/60 to reduce flicker from various objects, AC LED xmas lights for example. 1/50 is close enough to 1/48, but it still looks a little funny to me. If you are going for a specific look, then shutter speed manipulation is appropriate. If you are over or undercranking, then adjustments to shutter are also necessary.

Shutter speed (IMO) should NEVER be used to compensate for exposure so you can open the lens to where you want it. And yeah, no offense intended here, but it does look amateurish, from a photographic standpoint. Combine that with the wobblevision in that clip and, from a technical and technique standpoint I don't like the image. Use ND if you are outside and want more breathing room to open up the lens.

All of that is ONLY to critique technical aspects. I was just looking at the image only, not the content, acting, cuts or anything else. In fact, I watched it purposely without sound so I could more closely examne the image. On that subject, when the image suffers from a disregard for basic motion picture photographic technique - then the rest of the film has to work that much harder to overcome the drawback. No lights, fine, whatever, do the best you can with that. No crew, no problem. But please, for the love of film making, at least use the tools at your disposal creatively, not because it was a perceived shortcut to get a shallower field in broad daylight. Nothing at all wrong with adjusting shutter speed to purposely mis-match against frame rate. But do it BECAUSE you want the look, don't simply accept the look because it got you something else that you could have gotten properly relatively easily.


The wobblevision from the handheld is bad enough. Not much to be done about that, it's a CMOS camera, but think of it this way. If there is a couple millimiters of wobble in an object on a 20" monitor, then it is 3x more movement when viewed on a 60" monitor and 10x more than that on a 50 foot screen. The shutter adjustments just exacerbate the problem IMO. (all numbers approximate)

But I'm an image guy. I like cameras, I like lighting, I like shooting, I like telling stories and making statements by visual means. I'm working my a$$ to build a career as a DoP. I'm not a director or a writer. I pay attention to these kinds of things. If my goals were different (make a feature by any means necessary), then maybe I would feel differently.
 
Last edited:
It's something you just can't be satisfied with.

But I am satisfied with it. There is no way in hell I would even slightly consider re-shooting the above scene. I think it's terrific, even with that shot that I need to crop, to get the boom out of. This was shot at 1/100th.

I know, I know. You're not talking about my scene; you're talking about those horrible movies you threw out. All I'm saying is that I have a hard time believing that shutter speed ruined these movies you tossed out; they probably sucked for many many reasons.

P.S. David, I'm also confused.
 
But I am satisfied with it. There is no way in hell I would even slightly consider re-shooting the above scene. I think it's terrific, even with that shot that I need to crop, to get the boom out of. This was shot at 1/100th.

I know, I know. You're not talking about my scene; you're talking about those horrible movies you threw out. All I'm saying is that I have a hard time believing that shutter speed ruined these movies you tossed out; they probably sucked for many many reasons.

P.S. David, I'm also confused.

Confusion removal in post above. :D
 
Yeah, that was vague. The agreement was with Gonzo's comments directly above my post. :D

I typed a sort of opinionated response about the YT clip sample, then realized I was essentially repeating myself. I figure by now CF already knows how I feel about technicals. We've been down that road so I edited my post. Regarding shutter speeds though:

Shutter speed should be set to whatever is appropriate for your image. Why I can't have a true 1/48 shutter at 24fps on some cameras still baffles me to this day. I've used 1/60 to reduce flicker from various objects, AC LED xmas lights for example. 1/50 is close enough to 1/48, but it still looks a little funny to me. If you are going for a specific look, then shutter speed manipulation is appropriate. If you are over or undercranking, then adjustments to shutter are also necessary.

Shutter speed (IMO) should NEVER be used to compensate for exposure so you can open the lens to where you want it. And yeah, no offense intended here, but it does look amateurish, from a photographic standpoint. Combine that with the wobblevision in that clip and, from a technical and technique standpoint I don't like the image. Use ND if you are outside and want more breathing room to open up the lens.

All of that is ONLY to critique technical aspects. I was just looking at the image only, not the content, acting, cuts or anything else. In fact, I watched it purposely without sound so I could more closely examne the image. On that subject, when the image suffers from a disregard for basic motion picture photographic technique - then the rest of the film has to work that much harder to overcome the drawback. No lights, fine, whatever, do the best you can with that. No crew, no problem. But please, for the love of film making, at least use the tools at your disposal creatively, not because it was a perceived shortcut to get a shallower field in broad daylight. Nothing at all wrong with adjusting shutter speed to purposely mis-match against frame rate. But do it BECAUSE you want the look, don't simply accept the look because it got you something else that you could have gotten properly relatively easily.


The wobblevision from the handheld is bad enough. Not much to be done about that, it's a CMOS camera, but think of it this way. If there is a couple millimiters of wobble in an object on a 20" monitor, then it is 3x more movement when viewed on a 60" monitor and 10x more than that on a 50 foot screen. The shutter adjustments just exacerbate the problem IMO. (all numbers approximate)

But I'm an image guy. I like cameras, I like lighting, I like shooting, I like telling stories and making statements by visual means. I'm working my a$$ to build a career as a DoP. I'm not a director or a writer. I pay attention to these kinds of things. If my goals were different (make a feature by any means necessary), then maybe I would feel differently.

ok there we go. i agree with u 100%. and if u notice my earlier post, i recommended ND's as well instead of changing shutter speed.

my issue was that we were talking in absolutes when there were other options available. and i was talking abt shutter speed in more of a principal way compared to specific vids.
 
I also do not like the wobblevision, but actually there is something that can (and will) be done about that. I shot it knowing that I'd be smoothing it out in post. It's quite remarkable how much the wobble can be taken out.

Anyway, none offense taken; I appreciate the honest review. Cheers.
 
Word.

FWIW: The edit looked clean. Like I said, didn't listen, just watched.

Any interest in showing us this segment after de-wobbling in post? I haven't seen a large enough sample set to decide how I think that looks. Having a before and after would be pretty sweet.
 
Also, the clip I posted is the work of an amateur, by definition. Plus, I've stated many times that cinematography isn't even what I'm trying to do, so it's even more amateur, in that respect. So, I don't mind use of the word "amateur". I was kinda just reacting to use of the phrase "amateur hour", cuz that's different, and kinda derogatory. It's use wasn't directed at me, but I don't like it's useage, nonetheless.
 
Word.

FWIW: The edit looked clean. Like I said, didn't listen, just watched.

Any interest in showing us this segment after de-wobbling in post? I haven't seen a large enough sample set to decide how I think that looks. Having a before and after would be pretty sweet.

Thanks. Sure, I can post a before/after, but not until December. Still editing the movie, then I gotta edit audio, then work on color-correction/grading. Deadline to have a completed movie is Dec. 1st, then I'll start work on a trailer, etc., and that's when I can post a before/after for this scene.
 
Back
Top