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Flickering Lights

M

mad_hatter

Slightly embarrassing, since I work for a lighting company, so I should be able to figure this out, but...

Anybody know of any clever ways to make a regular light bulb flicker? Having searched Google, the concensus seems to be that the best way is to wire a starter into the LIVE. So that's what I've tried:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0hlxUjd1AA


Unfortunately, this isn't quite what I was going for. I would like the light to stay on permanently, then flicker off randomly, more intermittently than that in the video.

Any ideas?
 
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THIS???

^^^That's way out of my league (and price range).

Yes, no-budget would be preferable. I'd love the kind of control you could achieve with a piece of kit like that, but, for my needs, it seems completely unnecessary
 
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Sheesh, that magic box is spendy. Especially when there are things like this out there: http://www.northcountryradio.com/Kitpages/flicker3.htm

Many many moons ago (ok, several years ago) I recall reading about a diy solution for this. Basically it involved putting a flicker bulb into a project box with a photovoltaic sensor connected to a variable dimmer switch. Power for the main light would be routed through that dimmer and flicker along with the flickering from the flicker light. Bonus, the overall brightness control of the dinner still worked too so you could dial it in as needed.

I'll try to dig up a link. Worst case it would be probably about $40 of materials, but probably cheaper


EDIT: Found it! http://www.hauntedillinois.com/lightflicker.php
 
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Also I believe part of the problem you've got there is that's not a regular incandescent bulb.


The easiest solution generally is to have someone manually flick the switch/dimmer ;)
 
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Thanks for the input, Will.

The Instructables link you've given is actually just a more complex version of what I've already done...

The Haunted Illinois link is one that I did come across. The trouble with that one is that I don't want the light to be constantly flickering. Theoretically, the light pattern given by the flicker bulb, should be transferred, via the photocell, almost perfectly to the other end. Although that
is the kind of flicker I want, I would like it more sporadic, with the bulb always on (other than when it flickers, of course).

But it's worth a go. And, thinking about it, what I may do, is include a second light in there, which would overpower that of the flicker bulb. If I make it so this light is always on, but switches of via a push button, I could possibly get the effect I'm after. Although, that still relies on somebody manually pressing that button!


Will Vincent said:
Also I believe part of the problem you've got there is that's not a regular incandescent bulb...
Click to expand...

Correct. I need to try and get hold of one (not as simple as just buying one nowadays), although I don't think it will make much difference. The principle would be exactly the same; as the starter flicks on and off, the bulb will turn on and off, fairly regularly.

And I'm pretty sure the starter will eventually weld itself on!
 
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Possibly a stupid option, but can you not bulk buy old bulbs and then test them until you find one with the perfect flicker? Seems like it might be the most authentic way of approaching the task.
 
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An electric motor with a conductive disk treated to be non-conductive (drag contact like a bumper car on the bottom and top) would allow you to "program" the specific blinks you're looking for.
Basically, you power to bottom of the disk, then mask out the top where you want it to be powered off. When the disk turns, the masking will act like a fisher price phonograph player with the electricity. When masking, use a non-flammable material, and make sure to put the circuit in a fireproof box so as not to allow sparks to fall and cause a fire. It would be safest with LEDs due to the small voltage/amperage required, but very abrupt as there's no warm up time for them.
 
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mad_hatter said:
Although that
is the kind of flicker I want, I would like it more sporadic, with the bulb always on (other than when it flickers, of course).

But it's worth a go. And, thinking about it, what I may do, is include a second light in there, which would overpower that of the flicker bulb. If I make it so this light is always on, but switches of via a push button, I could possibly get the effect I'm after. Although, that still relies on somebody manually pressing that button!
Click to expand...

I believe the way that box is wired, if you leave the switch in the 'off' position (so the flicker bulb isn't receiving power) it would behave as a regular dimmer box.

If not, the fix would be fairly trivial, you'd basically add another switch to the circuit that shorts the two blue wires in step #2 thus keeping the triac out of the loop. The first switch would then control whether or not the flicker bulb gets power, the second would control whether or not that bulb is influencing the dimmer output.

At any rate, the outcome would be full-on light, except when the flicker bulb is engaged. Yes, someone would still have to manually hit the switch, but that's a pretty small compromise to get this to work with basically any non-ballasted light.

EDIT: looking at it again, my first statement is false. With the switch indicated in the wiring diagram turned off it would behave as if the flicker bulb were in its dimmest mode all the time.

So.. the solution would be to either add a second switch, or a double pole double throw switch that when flipped on powers the flicker bulb and runs the blue wires indicated in step #2 through the triac, and when flipped off cuts power to the flicker bulb and shorts the blue wires together.

Or just omit the switch for the flicker bulb so that it's always on when the box is plugged in. Though your bulb may not last as long that way. ;)

If I find some time later I'll draw up a diagram with a DPDT switch


EDIT #2: Wow, I'm a little out of it today.. blue wires stay in place.. you'd short the leads to the photo cell. effectively taking it out of the loop, or including it in the loop.
 
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NickClapper said:
...can you not bulk buy old bulbs and then test them until you find one with the perfect flicker? Seems like it might be the most authentic way of approaching the task.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea, but seems a bit too hit and miss for my liking. In reality, flicker wouldn't so much be caused by a faulty bulb, but actually faulty wiring. So, finding a faulty bulb may be quite difficult; they tend to either work, or not.


knightly said:
An electric motor with a conductive disk treated to be non-conductive (drag contact like a bumper car on the bottom and top) would allow you to "program" the specific blinks you're looking for.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, although doing this homemade seems a little dangerous to me. However, danger is my middle name, so I may give this a go. Have you ever actually tried this yourself? What would you use for the disc? Is there a specific product you have in mind, or would you just use a sheet of steel? Or carbon, perhaps?


Will Vincent said:
....to get this to work with basically any non-ballasted light.....
Click to expand...

Do you know of a simple solution using a CFL with a ballast? I didn't particularly want to use fluorescent light, as I'm almost certain it won't flicker the way I want. But it might be worth a go. CFL's and ballasts are something I can quite easily "borrow" from my employer...
 
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You might be able to get a flicker out of a CFL with a bad starter, or under powered ballast.. but I don't know off hand. That's a whole other beast than incandescent lighting. :)

Also it wouldn't work with the kind of bulb in your test video, it would have to be like a shop light, where the ballast and bulb are completely separate pieces
 
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Yep, got that. I'm a production engineer for a company who manufacture these sorts of lights, but getting them to flicker is something that we try to avoid! There's a few people I need to speak to there, to see if they've ever come across anything.

And the starter I've used there came from a fluorescent in my garage. It flickers a little at start up, but once the lamp ignites, it holds just fine.
 
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Those for your home do, those we use in commercial lighting tend to require a ballast. They refer to them as integrated and non - integrated.

A bigger problem may be that starters aren't actually used any more; most ballasts have an electronic start function. Still, I'm not sure using a starter to cause flicker is the right way to go.
 
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mad_hatter said:
Gotcha, although doing this homemade seems a little dangerous to me. However, danger is my middle name, so I may give this a go. Have you ever actually tried this yourself? What would you use for the disc? Is there a specific product you have in mind, or would you just use a sheet of steel? Or carbon, perhaps?
Click to expand...

In my REALLY GEEKY youth, I made an LED based fixed binary counter that ran off a small electric motor turning a steel disk with black electrical tape on it to open/close the individual circuits to the LEDs.

Not the one, digital circuits have completely taken over for kid's electronic science projects… but here's some of the concepts using a slightly different, but similar mechanism:

http://m.eet.com/media/1160902/flow_metering_tutorial_2_fig2.jpg
from: http://www.edn.com/design/sensors/4...--Part-2--Pulse-based-counting-in-flow-meters

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-TPCgOcOI_qg/T...down_counter1_thumb%255B3%255D.png?imgmax=800
from: http://www.vlsiencyclopedia.com/2011/07/application-of-synchronous-updown.html
 
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