First 'pro' camera

J

JMander

Hello, I'm after my first professional camcorder. With so many out there, I'm not really sure what I'm buying!

I would like one with
  • Full HD
  • Preferably SD card as supposed to tape
  • Under £1,300

I'm not really a noob with technology however I I'm not sure what I'm looking for with so many different ones around. I would prefer one that is actually a camcorder (like a shoulder mounted one or something) as supposed to DSLR but that is just personal preference.

I film at public events and that, so this would be used for that.
 
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Hello new dude :cool:

First, what will the camera be used for?
What other gear do you have?
What level of experience are you at?

I know you do not really want a DSLR that much, but the Canon T3i is a great pick around your price range. You can get a used body, then spend the rest of your money on lenses and a rig.

Good luck with finding a camera!
 
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Well, that's still a little vague, but knowing that you'll be doing event coverage does help. DSLR is pretty much out for that, as the file-size limit doesn't allow for continuous recording. Canon DSLRs, for example, have to stop every 12 minutes.

What's your intended end-distribution medium? Primarily for broadcast? Primarily for DVD? Primarily for web?

Does 24p acquisition matter to you? (Since you're in the UK, probably not, but 25p might matter over 50i.)

What kind of sound support do you have to work with?

Without knowing these specifics, it'll be harder to guide you in the right direction. Off the top, though, in your price range, you might want to look at the HMC40 and the AC90 from Panasonic. They'll shoot 1080 in several flavors, so there's flexibility depending on your intended distribution medium. They record to SD card.

Shoulder mount in your range will be harder to get, but the HMC80 from Panasonic is the exact same camera as the HMC40 but in a shoulder-mount design as opposed to a compact hand-held. It's at the top end of your price range (at least in the comparable US prices), but don't forget that you need a good, solid tripod with fluid head. You'll also want to budget for a couple extra batteries, high-capacity if you can afford it, to maximize your field recording times without having to stop and wait for a charge.
 
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AcousticAl said:
Well, that's still a little vague, but knowing that you'll be doing event coverage does help. DSLR is pretty much out for that, as the file-size limit doesn't allow for continuous recording. Canon DSLRs, for example, have to stop every 12 minutes.

What's your intended end-distribution medium? Primarily for broadcast? Primarily for DVD? Primarily for web?

Does 24p acquisition matter to you? (Since you're in the UK, probably not, but 25p might matter over 50i.)

What kind of sound support do you have to work with?

Without knowing these specifics, it'll be harder to guide you in the right direction. Off the top, though, in your price range, you might want to look at the HMC40 and the AC90 from Panasonic. They'll shoot 1080 in several flavors, so there's flexibility depending on your intended distribution medium. They record to SD card.

Shoulder mount in your range will be harder to get, but the HMC80 from Panasonic is the exact same camera as the HMC40 but in a shoulder-mount design as opposed to a compact hand-held. It's at the top end of your price range (at least in the comparable US prices), but don't forget that you need a good, solid tripod with fluid head. You'll also want to budget for a couple extra batteries, high-capacity if you can afford it, to maximize your field recording times without having to stop and wait for a charge.
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Hello, the camera will be used for filming public events and also interview, both inside and outside. I have a Zoom Z1, clip on mic and also a handheld one with a wind shield. I'm not really sure how I can define by experience however I filmed at several events and interviewed several people. I am starting a college course on September on Film & Television. - Example of my work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-jRignZNYQ&feature=share&list=UUctAbLyXQmW8_8fQOzYnhFA

AcousticAl - It's primarily for web however also DVD on occasions. If 24p is the frame rate then I don't really know about that. My current camera is 25fps however I don't see the big thing about 24 frames as the quality looks the same to me. If '24p' wasn't frame rate then I don't know what you mean, sorry!

I use the Zoom H1 normally with a mic however I would prefer a shotgun one attached to the camera. I've been looking at something like the Sony HVR-HD1000U.

Thanks for replying guys :)
 
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JMander said:
AcousticAl - It's primarily for web however also DVD on occasions. If 24p is the frame rate then I don't really know about that. My current camera is 25fps however I don't see the big thing about 24 frames as the quality looks the same to me. If '24p' wasn't frame rate then I don't know what you mean, sorry!
Click to expand...

24p is 24 progressive frames per second, but as I said, since you're in the UK and PAL is the standard, 25p would be your option.

Since you are aiming mostly for the web, you want to shoot progressive video and not interlaced. That means that you want to keep it to 25p instead of 50i. PAL DVD will be able to handle 25p material as well.

JMander said:
I use the Zoom H1 normally with a mic however I would prefer a shotgun one attached to the camera.
Click to expand...

You should spend some time in the sound threads here and on other filmmaking forums. It's an important aspect of video, and though there are ways to get workable audio on a budget it is certainly not something to be left as an afterthought to picture.

And if by "attached to the camera" you mean "mounted on the camera," that's the last and worst place to have a mic if you want anything worthwhile. If, rather, you mean the mic's cable would be connected to the camera to record audio to camera instead of a secondary recorder, that's where you need to be aware of the camera's available audio connections. See below.

JMander said:
I've been looking at something like the Sony HVR-HD1000U.
Click to expand...

You'd actually want to look at the HD-1000P, the PAL version, but that's not the camera for you at all. It shoots only interlaced video... fine for broadcast, but lousy for the web. You'd have to deinterlace the video before uploading, which will affect the resolution.

Also, that camera does not offer XLR inputs. That limits your audio options down the road.

Last, it's a single chip camera. With image sensors (chips) that small, 3 chips are far better than 1.
 
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AcousticAl said:
24p is 24 progressive frames per second, but as I said, since you're in the UK and PAL is the standard, 25p would be your option.

Since you are aiming mostly for the web, you want to shoot progressive video and not interlaced. That means that you want to keep it to 25p instead of 50i. PAL DVD will be able to handle 25p material as well.



You should spend some time in the sound threads here and on other filmmaking forums. It's an important aspect of video, and though there are ways to get workable audio on a budget it is certainly not something to be left as an afterthought to picture.

And if by "attached to the camera" you mean "mounted on the camera," that's the last and worst place to have a mic if you want anything worthwhile. If, rather, you mean the mic's cable would be connected to the camera to record audio to camera instead of a secondary recorder, that's where you need to be aware of the camera's available audio connections. See below.



You'd actually want to look at the HD-1000P, the PAL version, but that's not the camera for you at all. It shoots only interlaced video... fine for broadcast, but lousy for the web. You'd have to deinterlace the video before uploading, which will affect the resolution.

Also, that camera does not offer XLR inputs. That limits your audio options down the road.

Last, it's a single chip camera. With image sensors (chips) that small, 3 chips are far better than 1.
Click to expand...

Would you still recommend the HMC40 and the AC90 then?
 
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Hi JM - For pro event and interview work, you really want a pro camcorder with built in XLR inputs.
Yes, a shoulder mount would be nice, but these start at £3300 and up.

The AC90 recommended above is a very good choice for events and interviews, but it will be a challenge to find one for £1300.

The best price I could find for the AC90 in the UK was £1646 at H.Preston via Amazon.

If that is a little too far above your budget target, you might want to look at the Canon XA10. The price for this camera has started to come down since the release of the XA20.

The best price I could find for a new XA10 was £1450 on eBay, but you may be able to do better in the shops.

I would avoid the HMC40 (the HMC41 in the UK) - it is an older camera that records at low bit rates and lacks 1080/50p for smooth action/slow motion.

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
 
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brunerww said:
Hi JM - For pro event and interview work, you really want a pro camcorder with built in XLR inputs.
Yes, a shoulder mount would be nice, but these start at £3300 and up.

The AC90 recommended above is a very good choice for events and interviews, but it will be a challenge to find one for £1300.

The best price I could find for the AC90 in the UK was £1646 at H.Preston via Amazon.

If that is a little too far above your budget target, you might want to look at the Canon XA10. The price for this camera has started to come down since the release of the XA20.

The best price I could find for a new XA10 was £1450 on eBay, but you may be able to do better in the shops.

I would avoid the HMC40 (the HMC41 in the UK) - it is an older camera that records at low bit rates and lacks 1080/50p for smooth action/slow motion.

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
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Thanks for that Bill. Is there any new versions of the HDR-FX1?
 
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brunerww said:
JM - The only modern pro Sony camcorder below £2000 is the £1702 HXR-NX30. The NX30 has pro XLR mic inputs and an amazing Balanced Optical Steady Shot system that can give you results like this:

http://vimeo.com/39781927

http://vimeo.com/39824407

Again, hope this is helpful!

Bill
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Thanks for that. Would you say the AG-AC90 is professional enough for event filming or would it be better getting the AG-HMC81E? I'm not what the prices are like for cases, batteries e.t.c AT some point I would like a light to go onto of the camcorder however this isn't essential when first buying iot.
 
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JM - Again, I would avoid older generation cameras such as the Panasonic AG-HMC41 or the AG-HMC-81. These cameras record at lower bit rates, perform poorly in low light and lack 1080/50p.

Here is the Slashcam comparison of the 28mbps AC90 and the 24mbps HMC41 (essentially the same camera as the HMC81 in a smaller body): http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/compare-9c9c2024c49bdf55b8e5f41f6abd60a4.html

Any of the new generation of cameras mentioned above (e.g. AG-AC90 or the NX30) will give you superior image quality when compared to these older cameras.

Best,

Bill
 
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brunerww said:
JM - Again, I would avoid older generation cameras such as the Panasonic AG-HMC41 or the AG-HMC-81. These cameras record at lower bit rates, perform poorly in low light and lack 1080/50p.

Here is the Slashcam comparison of the 28mbps AC90 and the 24mbps HMC41 (essentially the same camera as the HMC81 in a smaller body): http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/compare-9c9c2024c49bdf55b8e5f41f6abd60a4.html

Any of the new generation of cameras mentioned above (e.g. AG-AC90 or the NX30) will give you superior image quality when compared to these older cameras.

Best,

Bill
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Hello, thanks for the info! After looking at some sample videos and that online, I think that's my camera! Haha. I sometimes film in windy conditions. Would you suggest I put an external mic onto the camera or use the 5.1 surround sound? One of the videos I watch said it was like a compressed 4K quality, is that true for the Ac90?

This video looked good quality! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFrhLxrIcwI I read a review that said it isn't the best is low light, do you know about this?
 
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brunerww said:
That really is a nice piece on Tom Klose. At the end, I cared more about the content than what it was shot on, which is the way it is supposed to be :)

As for low light at this price point, the AC90 does a good job at high gain, but the £2360 Canon XA25 (XA20 in the States) may be marginally better:

http://vimeo.com/72520321


That said, the XA25 costs significantly more money, so you get what you pay for.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
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Thanks for that Bill. In the Tom Klose video, can you record in the film aspect ratio or do you have to do that in post production?
 
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JMander said:
Hi, I meant the cinema ratio 2:35:1 where it's cut off at the top and bottom.

Also, does this seem too good? http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...ep_vectorid=229508&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg
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Yes, if you want anything wider than 16:9, you would have to mask it in post.

And yes, this eBay listing is too good to be true if you are in the UK. This is likely the US NTSC camera. It will not record to 25p (European broadcast standard) and you will not be able to connect it to a UK PAL TV for playback.

You need a European spec camera like this one for £1645.59 from Amazon UK for compatibility with UK/European PAL standard TV.

Also - the kit they're selling with the camera is rubbish. That VHF wireless mic should go straight into the bin (I have one just like it).

Best of luck!

Bill
 
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