first audio capture purchase

WhiteOpus · Jun 23, 2014

Hey guys, wanted to see if any of you have used the Rode VideoMic and your thoughts on it? I know next to nothing about audio capture but I know that getting a mic is an essential part of my filmmaking. I would primarily be using it for fictional narratives (capturing one to three people talking), very rarely for interviews. If this wouldn't be the best mic to start with, can you let me know why you feel that way and what a better option would be? Again, I know next to nothing about audio so please, explain like I'm five :yes:

Alcove Audio · Jun 23, 2014

How long is a piece of string?

What camera and other audio gear do you have? Do you have others to help you make your films? Will you mount the mic on the camera or a boom-pole? And...?

We need a lot more info.

WhiteOpus · Jun 23, 2014

I have a canon 550D. I have no other audio gear. I have a small crew when I need it. I'll likely mount the mic on both the camera AND the boom pole (i've read that you can't attach it to a boom, but wanted to make sure). Sorry I didn't give enough info the first time around...again, I have no idea what to even list or what's important. literally ANY info is helpful.

Alcove Audio · Jun 23, 2014

WhiteOpus said:
I've read that you can't attach it to a boom, but wanted to make sure.

Sweetie · Jun 23, 2014

What are your objectives? Just to make home videos with your friends? To practice telling stories and get slightly better audio than camera audio?

Are you looking to make a cinematic masterpiece to get shown in cinemas all around the world?

Or something in between?

After knowing that can recommendations be made.

WhiteOpus · Jun 24, 2014

thank you for the direction, "sweetie". i suppose i may have been a bit vague in that respect. my goal (until i am able to upgrade all of my equipment) is to write, produce and shoot a short, crowdfunded film (about $4k) that could likely make it into a semi-major film festival. I'd like to get audio as close to the "real thing" as possible (meaning films you see in a century 21 theater). This doesn't mean I expect that same level of quality because I know through basic research that I can't afford gear or operators of that quality. I just basically want it to be the best it can be for someone trying to spend $1,000 or less on an entire audio capture system (mic, boom, blimp, cables, recorder, batteries, etc) for a film that employs a "road trip" format with a fair amount of dialogue.

mus · Jun 24, 2014

Yes, I have this microphone and it is magnificent.

One thing about the boom pole though... after a small amount of wear-and-tear, I was no longer able to attach the microphone to the pole without taping it. (I currently have a half roll of duct tape holding it together...)

Sweetie · Jun 24, 2014

is to write, produce and shoot a short, crowdfunded film (about $4k) that could likely make it into a semi-major film festival. I'd like to get audio as close to the "real thing" as possible (meaning films you see in a century 21 theater). This doesn't mean I expect that same level of quality because I know through basic research that I can't afford gear or operators of that quality. I just basically want it to be the best it can be for someone trying to spend $1,000 or less on an entire audio capture system (mic, boom, blimp, cables, recorder, batteries, etc) for a film that employs a "road trip" format with a fair amount of dialogue.

Rode VideoMic and your thoughts on it?

My thoughts: You may be able to pull this off with sub-par equipment that you're considering with your budget, however, you're going to need a savant of an operator to be able to pull the quality of recordings you're going to want from them and a crap tonne of post audio work, which is probably going to cost you more than it would have cost to just get the right combination in the first place.

A huge part of the equation with sound is your locations (which has nothing to do with the sound department). If you choose locations and situations that are bad for sound, you're going to get crap sound and will need to push a lot of sound work into post.

I wish you luck on your journey. What you really need is a great soundie to work with you and guide you on this process. That $1k you're planning on spending on gear would probably cover their fee (a bit).

WhiteOpus · Jun 25, 2014

gotcha. I have a very good friend who is an audio engineer that I would likely be able to convince to help me. Not only with recording the sound but to mix it in post production for free (or very little charge like buying him dinner or something). As he is trying to expand his portfolio, it would be mutually beneficial for him to help me with the audio.

He has sound recording equipment that's well over $2k, so I may be able to convince him to let us use his equipment on this one, instead of having to spend part of my budget to buy my own mic and recorder (w/ cables, boom, wind sock etc)

About the location and audio:

Currently the locations I can think of would be:
-Walking from outside in a parking lot to inside an apartment
-Inside an apartment
-In a moving car, windows up
-In a church or other building with a high ceiling
-In a large field (on a day with no wind)

As far as location goes, are there any places you would suggest as the "best" and then conversely as the "worst"?

Alcove Audio · Jun 25, 2014

WhiteOpus said:
I have a very good friend who is an audio engineer

There is a huge difference between music and sound-for-picture. The technical basics are similar, but the mindset and application are very different. I know, I was a music engineer before migrating to audio post. And production sound is radically different than even live music sound. It took me quite a while before I entirely "got it."

WhiteOpus said:
He has sound recording equipment that's well over $2k, so I may be able to convince him to let us use his equipment on this one, instead of having to spend part of my budget to buy my own mic and recorder (w/ cables, boom, wind sock etc)

Does he have any dedicated production sound gear like a shotgun mic, hypercardioid mic, boom-pole & shock-mount, wind protection, field recorder/mixer, etc.? The list I gave you in my previous post are the basics, and only prosumer quality at that. A "Hollywood" sound cart/kit can easily go over $50k. So I doubt that he has any real production sound gear. It's not a knock on your friend, music recording and production sound require different tools and different techniques.

BTW, my audio post gear probably comes in around the $25k level, not including the $25k spent on building my rooms. A "big" facility can cost well into the millions.

WhiteOpus · Jun 25, 2014

Alcove Audio said:
Does he have any dedicated production sound gear like a shotgun mic, hypercardioid mic, boom-pole & shock-mount, wind protection, field recorder/mixer, etc.?

He does have everything you've listed above except for the boom-pole/shock mount combo and wind protection.

Alcove Audio said:
There is a huge difference between music and sound-for-picture. The technical basics are similar, but the mindset and application are very different. I know, I was a music engineer before migrating to audio post. And production sound is radically different than even live music sound. It took me quite a while before I entirely "got it."

Like I said before, I just want things to be as good as they can be for what I have available to me. I'm sure he doesn't have some fifty thousand dollar setup, and it's likely he has no experience in production sound. However, he knows the basics of getting sound into a project so it's the best I can do without hiring a sound guy for more than half my crew budget. Again, I am not expecting hollywood quality sound or anything near it. I just want it to sound better than using the onboard mic from my 550D. I get it, this is what you do but not everyone has access and/or the experience that you may have. I'm just asking for suggestions on making the sound better while remaining in my price/experience/availability range. And if you think it's literally impossible to get even close to respectable sound without shelling out the cash you've mentioned above, then please tell me now so I can abandon the project before spending any more money.

Alcove Audio · Jun 25, 2014

You can use cheap consumer stuff and still get solid results, but it takes a great deal of knowledge, skill and experience, which was the point of most of my post.

Now, your buddy may have mics, but are they mics that have applications to production sound? The mics used for production sound are very different than mics used for music.

Post a list (makes/models) of the mics and other audio gear your friend has; I'll let you know if it's going to be problematic. For instance, many music types have something like the Audio Technica AT2020 LDC mic. It's a nice bargain mic, but is extremely sensitive to wind & motion and relatively heavy when on the end of a boom-pole (not to mention the configuration issues), so is not really suited to production sound work.

I'm all for working on a shoestring - I've done it many times myself - but you need to be aware of the problems that you may face out of ignorance. On location is a poor place and time to find out you have the wrong gear or lack the knowledge to accomplish what you want to do.

Sweetie · Jun 25, 2014

As far as location goes, are there any places you would suggest as the "best" and then conversely as the "worst"?

For sound, the best locations are quiet. The worst ones are noisy. Avoid main roads, freeways, flight paths, noisy neighbors, airports, work sites, construction sites, public parks, schools and so on. Noise not only pollutes your audio, it can make it difficult to make seamless edits and transitions.

WhiteOpus · Jun 25, 2014

Alcove Audio said:
You can use cheap consumer stuff and still get solid results, but it takes a great deal of knowledge, skill and experience, which was the point of most of my post.

Now, your buddy may have mics, but are they mics that have applications to production sound? The mics used for production sound are very different than mics used for music.

Post a list (makes/models) of the mics and other audio gear your friend has; I'll let you know if it's going to be problematic. For instance, many music types have something like the Audio Technica AT2020 LDC mic. It's a nice bargain mic, but is extremely sensitive to wind & motion and relatively heavy when on the end of a boom-pole (not to mention the configuration issues), so is not really suited to production sound work.

I'm all for working on a shoestring - I've done it many times myself - but you need to be aware of the problems that you may face out of ignorance. On location is a poor place and time to find out you have the wrong gear or lack the knowledge to accomplish what you want to do.

Hey I appreciate the input. I'll try to ask him what mics he has and get back to you a little later today/tomorrow.

As for working low budget/low experience, didn't you start somewhere? Don't we all?
The only way I can get experience is to try it out (and to ask questions on forums like this). Of course I wouldn't be trying anything for the first time on an actual shoot, I'd go out prior with my sound guy and figure out what we need to do to make things work. I would never waste my time or the talent's time with fumbling around not knowing what I'm doing.

It might be helpful to mention that I've changed my timeframe on the project to sometime next year, as I've realized I have a long way to go as far as equipment and experience goes. If you perhaps have some exercises my friend and I can do to be prepared, that would be extremely helpful.

Alcove Audio · Jun 25, 2014

WhiteOpus said:
As for working low budget/low experience, didn't you start somewhere? Don't we all?

Of course.

WhiteOpus said:
If you perhaps have some exercises my friend and I can do to be prepared, that would be extremely helpful.

Get out there and shoot some stuff with your sound guy just to work out the kinks. Book learning is all well and good, but everything goes out the window once you do it for real. Walk around a room, in your backyard, on the street, in a car, etc. and have him boom it; it's A LOT harder than it seems. If he's motivated at all have him dive into Jeff Wexlers site for production sound folks.

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?

You/he may want to get "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers - it's pretty good and gives you a lot of insights into production sound.

After you've shot a few simple things work on the audio post aspects; again, it's A LOT harder than it seems. Both of you need to work out your audio export/import issues, giving him what he needs so he can work in his DAW, and he'll need to work on learning the difference between music and audio post. You'll also hear how much extraneous background noise gets into your production sound.

As I mentioned in a previous post - and many, many other times on this forum - it's all about knowledge, skill and experience. You have to do it as naturally as walking, so when you hit rough ground all you need to do is pay attention to what's different and watch where you put your feet.