Finding it impossible to find certain bands representation?

M

MaximusXXX

I'm find it very difficult to track down the representing labels of certain albums/bands.

These bands and albums are largely obscure or our of print. They are not found on amazon but are found on youtube.


In certain situations, should I just take a stab in the dark? Most of these bands are from other countries (I'm in Canada) and if I use a song of theirs as an over in a scene I can easily replace it IF I get a legal letter.
 
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You probably will get into some trouble if found out. Not just a legal letter, but possibly something worse, like a lawsuit maybe?

I'm no expert but why not just use a song from a band with permission?
 
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Right now I'm in the process of faxing a TON of request forms.

To Sony, EMI, etc.

However I fully expect most of the quotes to be in the $500-$1,000 range. Although I only need partial segments of songs so maybe less.


Don't underestimate the obscurity of some of the music I'm talking about. These are songs that have under 100 views on youtube, copyrighted in the early 80s and by bands that are difficult to find any information on and have been disbanded for over 20 years.

I sincerely doubt I'd get sued, for example, for using a 30 year old broken band from France. The question is if anyone will notice and tell me to cut it out of the film.


For reference, I'm not yet looking at putting out the film for profit, it's going to go into festivals long before I think about selling copies of it.
 
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Festival license usually isn't too much generally...

In my opinion, it's pretty horrible to use someones creative work without their permission and hope you get away with it. How would you feel if someone took your film and put their name on it.

If it's a 30 year old french band that nobody will recognize anyway, why does that specific song need to be in the movie? If you're licensing something, it should be recognizable enough to your demographic to be worth it, otherwise for a lot less you can pay a composer/band to write you a custom piece from scratch with a similar feel to it and be totally legal for not a lot of money, AND give another artist a gig and a chance to shine.

It's good you're filling out request forms, that's the right way to do it. Should you get a really high price or a no, please don't try to get away with it anyway. Especially being someone hoping to make it in a creative industry, stealing or taking advantage or someone else's creative work is lame. The golden rule, you reap what you sow, you get what you give, do unto others...
 
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Thanks for the feedback PG, understand that I am not trying to undercut a band by using their song without permission.

Understand the situation. I spend hours trying to find a way to contact a proper licensing official, I mean, I inquired about a few bands to Sony, EMI, and several other major labels. All of them stated no band existed in their registry.

So right there I basically have no leads of where to go. So the golden rule in these circumstances is that if it's so hard for me to find a representative then it implies the band may or may not have relevance anymore legally. This happened to a lot of 80s rock bands. Some of the members may be dead and none of their albums are in distribution. This leaves the door wide open for fair use policies.

Understand that I would NEVER use someone's work without mentioning them.


So it boils down to me PERHAPS using a song that seems to have no one representing it and hence nobody trying to turn a profit from it. I use it and give it recognition in my film. So nothing ill has been done. If someone comes to me and says I did not properly get the song and that I should give them money or cut the song, then so be it, but from a logical standpoint this seems highly unlikely.

Hopefully I make myself clear on this issue.
 
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I gotcha, still, just because something is legal doesn't make it moral, you know? Even then, SOMEONE owns the rights. Fair use laws don't cover music in movies, and public domain isn't for the recording, but the music itself.

Just because it's hard to track down who owns what doesn't really mean up for grabs, just means someone (them, not you) is a terrible publisher or businessman.

What band is it? Never know, someone here might have an idea on how to get a hold of them or find out who to contact.

Not that any of us have a vote, but if I did, I'm still voting to hire a composer to create you something similar, or approaching a young band with a similar sound for one of their songs.
 
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I'm in no shortage of prospects. I have old friend connections with two bands and know of several bands that may be used.

But for my film I do need some raunchy 80s rock songs. Not many, but some.

It's hard for a young band today to emulate a hair band, really it is.


Anywho one band is Niagara, but not the Niagara you think from France. This is a hair metal band, songs can be found on youtube like Now or Never.


This isn't as obscure as I was referencing as it does have some fans but it's still pretty damn obscure. On amazon the album is listed as #6,586 in Music. But it doesn't have a single review as of yet.
 
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Try contacting members of the band through social media sights. You mention that songs were posted on YouTube, by whom? Send PMs to the posters and ask if they have any connection to the band or leads on how to contact them. Good luck.
 
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Thanks for trying jax but Avispa does not have them listed.

What I found out is several bands are now held by labels they were not apart of before but with obscure bands that have been broken up for 17 years, the original label may have easily opted not to renew them which seems like the case.
 
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Have you tried the US Copyright Office (or the equivalent if the band is from another country)?

http://www.copyright.gov/records/

From there you can try MySpace, FaceBook, LinkedIn and Goggle in general. You can also look up the names of bands members. You can even try websites for musicians; there's a huge "old boy" network out there, everybody knows everybody at third hand.

BTW, there are bands out there who still do the "hair band" thing, so you should be able to find some "new" music, and there are composers/bands who specialize in recreating the sound and style of an era.

One more thing...

On Amazon the album is listed as #6,586 in Music.
Click to expand...

Why not buy the album, the copyrights should be listed in the liner notes.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Have you tried the US Copyright Office (or the equivalent if the band is from another country)?

http://www.copyright.gov/records/

From there you can try MySpace, FaceBook, LinkedIn and Goggle in general. You can also look up the names of bands members. You can even try websites for musicians; there's a huge "old boy" network out there, everybody knows everybody at third hand.

BTW, there are bands out there who still do the "hair band" thing, so you should be able to find some "new" music, and there are composers/bands who specialize in recreating the sound and style of an era.

One more thing...



Why not buy the album, the copyrights should be listed in the liner notes.
Click to expand...


Had no clue myspace was this big. They have a recent reno?

Anyway I found all the obscure bands I was interested in thank you very much.
 
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I was reading somewhere that Myspace is having a bit of a comeback, but as a music/media platform rather than the social network it started as. They reported more new user signups in December than the year leading up to it. Good on them; as a musician, I always liked it.

You've found the bands you are looking for, but another good resource is Reverbnation. It's sorta similar to mp3.com about 10 years ago. These days it's really easy to get in touch with indie bands, usually pretty directly!
 
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MaximusXXX said:
Thanks for trying jax but Avispa does not have them listed.

What I found out is several bands are now held by labels they were not apart of before but with obscure bands that have been broken up for 17 years, the original label may have easily opted not to renew them which seems like the case.
Click to expand...

In any case, Niagara is listen on the Avispa site, which would mean that whilst Avispa may not have been the original label, they are certainly their current representation. Unless you've already tried there to no avail. As has been said, check out Myspace or put out a call on the internet and see what turns up. You might be surprised at what you get. If you have the money, you may also want to look at professional music libraries like Extreme Music. Extreme Music have a lot of 'replica' music as is often needed by productions - the company even tries to record the songs that are meant to sound old on old analogue equipment so that they don't sound like they're trying to emulate a sound and are in fact just sounding 'old'.
 
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