film-school Film school is how you make it

[J_Fellini]

Alright... this debate about film schools has gone on long enough. I've read so many places that going to film school is a rip off for a number of reasons...

1. The teachers are losers and can't get into the industry so they teach
2. Its so bloody expensive
3. You can get the same experience elsewhere

Well I think these arguments are fair... and remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion. BUT I wish to discredit these notions.

1. Teachers bit- Sure they may suck, but their not there to make good movies... we are. So I don't care if my teacher can't make an oscar worthy picture, if they know enough of the technical stuff... leave the content to me. The teaching is how you make of it... sure theres crappy teachers... theres also really good teachers, but film school isn't always just about the teaching... which brings me to my next point.

2. Its so bloody expensive- People say that you might as well take that money and put it into equipment etc. to make their own movies. Here's why I say you invest it into film school. At film school in the one year that you are there, you get the chance to make a doc, a music video, a commercial, a short. 4 productions in ONE YEAR. Plus you have access to all of their equipment. That and your crew and such available too. Sure you come out with a huge a$$ debt... But you also have the oppertunity to enter these productions into various film festivals around the country or around the world.

3. Experience elsewhere- Sure, work at some production place and work your way to the top. That is always an excellent place to meet new people, and also to gain technical expertise. Or you could go to film school, and start at a much higher position in the same production place. Once you know all your stuff about technical, then you become a commodity because you are a skilled worker. However, skilled workers only take something so far...

This is why on top of film school, an undergrad in film studies is nice. Since you understand the cultural, societal, and critical implications to film. I know this sounds boring, and trust me... it is at times. It will help prepare you. If you know how to shoot.... but don't know the meaning of the shoot... this is what seperates the good movies from the bad. Do you want to make a corny, Rambo 3 (no disrespect to it... just an example) or do you want to make a Goodfellas?

The choice is yours... but I'm saying if you have the resources (parents... loans... robbing banks) educate the hell out of yourself... know every aspect of film and the quality of your project will become so much better.

 

[mr-modern-life]

For me some of the greatest film makers have come from a non-educated background (in terms of offical education), the best example being someone like Tarantino but to a lesser extent Scorsese, Burton, Coppolla...

And whilst i agree that reading film helps is it better or worse than (in what is my opinion the best way to read films) sitting down and watching movies.

At my Uni the bulk of people there had no interest in media as a degree but as a soft option and the talented ones, those who made films and had made films, suffered for this. It was for the most part a painful experience.

And I honestly believe that no book can teach you how to direct or produce, let alone a lecturer who has no practical or commercial expereince.

 

[mr-modern-life]

Oh... that was my 500th post! Yey! It's official ... I talk too much

 

[clive]

The irony of this is that I myself never attended either film school or a media degree at Uni. I did my degree in linguistic philosophy. In terms of the academic side of film making I'm largely self taught.

I learned every I know on professional sets and my experience of media school and film school graduates is that they are often worse than useless. It takes forever to kick the bad habits and sloppy attitudes out of them.

When I taught at an Academy for Performing Arts, year in year out I'd train actors to make their first films in under six weeks, and every year they'd win awards for their first films. Whereas the media students couldn't even match my guys' first efforts at the end of three years.

I remember one year going to the media department's final year show and having to show a graduated third year student how focus a camera!

More of my ex-drama students have gone on to become professional film makers than have ever come out of the media department, and I think this is because I was the only professional and active film maker in the college! The other lecturers were ex BBC news hacks or free-lancers who were good enough technically, but who had no understanding at all about drama or writing.

However, despite all this I actually think the whole college/no college is kind of irrelevant, because it's not whether you attend or don't attend, it is what attitude you have to learning. No film school or college is going to provide all the answers so it's each our own responsibility to learn our craft. it is useful to spend time with other film makers and learn from their experiences, but bottom line is that you learn it by doing it.

The real trick is to realize that no matter how much you know, it is always out weighed by how much you don't know. I think one of the things that keeps me in film is that there is always so much to learn. Where people get into trouble is when they start believing that they have all the answers.

Ignorance is the single biggest problem facing the indie film scene. This particularly true of UK producers, whose lack of both industry understanding (in terms of how the business works) and also a real lack of knowledge about either script or script development has ham-strung the industry for years.

This translates into a scene where everyone appears to have the technical aspects more or less locked, but who then flounder about in attempts to find either a market or an audience.

In many respects this has always been where the education system has been weakest, simply because teaching tends to attract those who can't survive in the commercial environment.

But this is no less true in the "non-film school" sector of the indie film scene, who are trying to deal with exactly the same issues.

The truth is that the indie scene should be flourishing right now, we have all the advantages of cheap production costs and a new marketing techniques. We're not flourishing because we don't pay sufficient attention to learning our crafts or to the business or script development.

 

[bugzilla]

More about film school

I went to The Ohio State University film school. The film school there shut down a year after I left (good riddance). I had a really bad time there. I went on to get a good job in multimedia, but everything that got me the job was self taught.

Two examples of how bad the school were, one of the heads of the department lost his job because he accosted a female student, and for one of my senior finals the instructor showed up 45 minutes late because he slept in (the final was supposed to start at 3 in the afternoon).

Don't do film school. Get a degree, sure, but make films on your own. You'll learn more, make better films, and have a better life.

Wow bugzilla, I'm wondering what film school you went to. It sounds really, REALLY bad. In my experience, some of our professors were less than knowledgeable about what they were teaching, but some were really great.

I always retained the rights to anything I made at our school.

Most of the people I went to film school with are either working in LA, New York, or are still hanging around Michigan, helping out any filmmaker they can, including myself. Also, I met my wife at film school. Regardless, they made really great crew. I will say that a few seemed out to sabotage others, because of jealousy more than anything else. Sometimes artists can get a little wierd around other artists striving for the same goal.

The equipment at our school was kept up really well and was very accessible. We had XL1s as soon as they came out and always had access to Bolex's and some 16mm Arris. I know they keep upgrading since I've left, adding XL2s, Final Cut Pro and Avid editing systems, and so on. That's why I say access to the free equipment was one of the plusses.

I guess it all depends on the school. I will say again that my degree never got me a job. But I think that the school I went to was great at letting us experiment on our own and learn from our mistakes. I had a lot of production under my belt when I graduated ranging from SVHS projects to Super 16 short films.

Incidentally, I went to film school at Grand Valley State University in Allendale Michigan. Every year they have a summer film program where the head professor of the film school directs a short film. They use 35mm cameras donated by Panavision, get a DP from LA and use the students for every other position on the crew. I happen to know that next year they're stepping it up and making a feature length film. It's some really valuable experience for the students.

So, you can get the experience by just doing it, but some schools are obviously better than others. If you're opting for the film school experience, just make sure you pick a good one.

 

[jansik]

School

Agree with J Fellini...
Film is quite an unconventional form of education...
I believe that all one needs to be a filmmaker is to shoot and watch a lot of films... develop critical thinking in order to be able to evaluate. Getting interested in History of Art helps... All that one really needs is some basic training with camera and light.
The mistake on part of many people is in thinking that it is the school that will make them filmmakers... there is nothing further from the truth.

 

[Shaw]

However, despite all this I actually think the whole college/no college is kind of irrelevant, because it's not whether you attend or don't attend, it is what attitude you have to learning. No film school or college is going to provide all the answers so it's each our own responsibility to learn our craft. it is useful to spend time with other film makers and learn from their experiences, but bottom line is that you learn it by doing

Clive, this is so spot on! Crap man! While the arts are mostly about experience and a demo reel (which can be developed with or without school) I'd like to add some to this idea about learning.

Those who are the BEST - regardless of their field - are those who have an innate and unsatiable curiosity. Some call it passion but I feel curiosity is a better term. The best 'hackers' (using the term as programmers do not the media) are those who have an intense curiosity about things. These are the guys who are hacking their operating system because they want to see how it works. They're the guys writing their own little programs to automate boring stuff. They're the ones who know several programming languages not because they're all the de facto commercial standard ensuring that they have work but because they are interesting! The same goes for filmmakers. Those who work on hard projects and have intense curiosity are the ones who make it big. These people are always doing something; playing with some aspect or another just to see what would happen - and I emphesize the word 'playing' because it really is play not work! THESE are the people who go far in life and it's all because their curiosity compels them to continually learn and experiment.

I see this all the time in College. Some people are just there going through the motions rather than exploring and this seems to be ESPECIALLY true in our multimedia/film department (why this is beats me). It isn't the fact that you are attending school that matters it's what you do while you're there! Learning is a life long habit not something you do once and then forget about for the rest of your life.

Attitude man, it's all attitude! Successful people are successful because they make themselves so. While there is some natural variation in abilities I think people often way overestimate the power that this plays. It's so much easier to tell yourself that some people are just good while you must just be untalented. Well, why are they good? It's because they work HARD. When we say that some people 'just have that special something' I believe this has less to do with innate ability to move a camera, draw a human, paint a picture than an innate curiosity and drive. THAT's what REALLY matters most.

Sometimes we think we like something but it can often be that we like the results (fame, money, approval, validation, etc) not necessarily the process. If you don't love the process so much that you want to learn, experiment, and learn some more it might be worth asking yourself if you're in the field for the right reasons.

Anyway, just my rambling 2 cents.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'd like to go to film school. Quite badly. But I can't escape the thought that if I had the money to go to film school, I'd be seriously tempted to put that towards making my own film instead and self-teaching myself as much as possible.

I dunno.

It could potentially be a huge disaster/waste of money to roll like that.

 

[Dan Delarusa]

I'd like to go to film school. Quite badly. But I can't escape the thought that if I had the money to go to film school, I'd be seriously tempted to put that towards making my own film instead and self-teaching myself as much as possible.

I dunno.

It could potentially be a huge disaster/waste of money to roll like that.

I have exactly the same problem. but i think i will try to aply to a Filmschool just for the experience and for the equipment.
Does anyone know if i can go to a college in the states with my swiss highschool degree? Do i even have a chance to aply

mfg DD

 

[shane82388]

I have exactly the same problem. but i think i will try to aply to a Filmschool just for the experience and for the equipment.
Does anyone know if i can go to a college in the states with my swiss highschool degree? Do i even have a chance to aply

mfg DD

i take some online classes at my film school and there is people from all over the world in those classes...so id guess you would be able to.

i go to the academy of art university in san francisco.

 

[pjutz28]

pjutz28 here, i've been interested in filmmaking ever since i got my own handycam in 7th grade. Didn't pursue my passion until about two years ago when i decided that i wanted to take filmmaking from being a hobby to being my full time career. I put together my ideas and plans and went out to find funding, that didnt turn out so well as I wasn't formally trained. I'm now based in asia, teaching English as a Second Language, and im scouting for some filmschools in the region. One school that caught my attention is the International Academy of FIlm and Television. I was hoping anyone in the forum is currently enrolled in any of their film programs, i would really like to hear an insiders opinion.

 

[FilmmakingStuff]

Film School

Film school is good for many aspiring filmmakers. You make a bunch of friends with people who share similar interests, determination and drive. These people will form the foundation of your professional network. And if you attend one of the BIG schools, it’s going to look great on your resume… Problem is, unless you plan to teach, most people will never ask to see your degree.

Unlike a doctor, dentist or lawyer, a film degree is not a prerequisite for an awesome career in movies. There is a difference between a degree and an education. Having clear goals, combined with a great work ethic and a subsequent hard working reputation will open the doors to your dreams. And when these doors open, you’ll quickly realize your Hollywood success is a result of your experience and attitude, not your degree.

No matter where you get your education, whether it is on the street or in the classroom, three things matter most in your movie making career. One is your ability to sell (yourself and your projects). The second is your ability to make friends. And the third is your ability to show up on time and do a great job.

Concentrate on mastering these areas and you’ll gain a reputation of being trustworthy. When money is on the line, trust is your number one asset. If nobody trusts you, then you may as well quit today.