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Film Dubbing Question

In mixing a feature film, I understand that there are dialogue sources from all over - set, ADR, etc.

When you are pre-mixing dialogue, do you add the reverb treatments in the pre-mix or do you leave that for the mixing stage?

And if you leave it for the mixing stage, do you at least add a bit of reverb to the ADR to match into the production sound?

How does one go about that?

- Ryan
 
The "traditional" method is to leave everything for the rerecording mixers. At the low/micro budget level it is at the discretion of the sound supervisor.

The issues are organization, workflow and budget. The smaller the budget the more pre-mixing is done prior to the final mix sessions.

My own workflow dictates that I at the least have temp EQs and reverbs in place while I work.
 
Can I hijack this thread and ask for a suitable work flow for me..

I have a separate Audio Work Station running cubase and am rather happy using it. The systems are networked together ad I can easily move files back and forth.

My first attempt at this went OK.

Edit clips in Premiere
Export mini version of locked film
Copied mini movie to DAW (sound editing pc)
Added mini movie as a track in my cubase song
Added tracks as desired
Exported audio wave file from cubase
copied audio file back to video workstation
Imported audio file into premier.

opened project in AE for grading, fx and final render.


One thing I could do differently would be to export the cubase project into separate wave files for each track. Mixing 5.1 in premier is easier than in my version of cubase.. Iv only done 5.1 a wee bit.. but it is fun
 
Sorry but can I ask my question one more time:

What exactly are the duties and responsibilities of a Supervising Sound Editor?

Just what the title implies; s/he is in charge of all aspects of the sound editing process, overseeing the dialog editor(s), ADR mixer(s) & editor(s), the Foley team (performer, mixer, & editor), the sound FX editor(s), the field sound FX recording team, coordinates with the composer & the score recording team, the music supervisor (who is in charge of source music and coordinates with the composer) and, of course, is on the mix stage with the rerecording mixer(s). It is not unusual for the Supervising Sound Editor to be one of the rerecording mixers.

The Sound Designer - who may or may not be the Supervising Sound Editor - is in charge of the overall sound of the project in the same way the DoP is in charge of the overall look of the film. The Sound Designer usually is more "hands on" rather than having a strictly supervisory position.

The rerecording mixer(s) take all of the various audio elements - dialog, Foley, sound FX, score and source music - and mix it into a cohesive whole using noise reduction, EQ and effects (reverbs, etc.).

These are the traditional "Hollywood" definitions.

A little technical history; in the traditional Hollywood lexicon the people who record sounds are called mixers. Yup, a bit confusing, but when sound was first being recorded for film the sounds were all mixed on-the-fly; the person who recorded the Foley might record several people performing Foley simultaneously, so would have to "mix" all of the Foley performances in real time onto one audio track. The final mix of all of the sounds were "rerecorded" from their various sources directly to the final optical or mag track of the film. These days, with the availability of hundreds of audio tracks, very little pre-mixing is done prior to the final mix.
 
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Great - thanks for the answer.

Now, my next question:

If you're mixing the film in the 11th hour and there is some narration at the end of the movie that has a bad edit in it and all you have is a premixed file, they would have to go back to the original premix Pro Tools session and fix it and then re-runoff that chunk of audio and relink it in the dub stage?

How does that work? And is there a quality control on the line before any audio gets to the dub stage by the Supervising Sound Editor?
 
It once again comes back to time, budget and workflow. You obviously want to get back to the original if you can, but that may not always be an option; you may have to fix what you are given. You may have to remix the entire reel, but in the digital age you have total mix recall so it's possible to just remix the bad section and paste it into the final mix.

Quality control is the responsibility of the Supervising Sound Editor. S/he should have it all in place and vetted before it ever gets to the mixing stage. Unfortunately, since sound is usually left until the very end of the process, especially when you're on a restricted budget and time frame, s/he has to rely on the individual department heads to pick up the slack. IMO the narration should not have been premixed, it's too important; at worst the reverb/FX should have been printed on a separate track.
 
Great - thanks for the input.

Do premixes usually get done on the same board and at the same place that the final mix gets done?

Or do people usually send in Pro Tools sessions from another room or another studio to the final mix?
 
there are no templates or traditional methods for sweetening and mixing. I have a very non-linear approach, as do many, I assume. I save colro grading, effects, sweetening, ect for last as I can't afford to waste time or money on content that may wind up on the cutting room floor. By the time I get to this stage, I know exactly what I'll be doing and where. It varies from project to project... hence the lack of a template for this.
 
Here we go again - time, budget, workflow.

Unless you are working at Skywalker Sound, Todd AO or a similar facility everything is at the discretion of the Supervising Sound Editor; and even each of those major facilities will have its own workflow.

Time and budget dictate the workflow. The more time you have and the bigger the budget the more flexibility you have. On a $100 million film the audio editing is handled by all of the specialists, overseen by their department heads who are in turn overseen by the Supervising Sound Editor. With the exception of some sound FX no premixes or treatments of any kind are done prior to the final mix, although preliminary presets for NR, EQ, reverbs, etc. may have been created. This gives the Rerecording Mixers absolute and final control over the minutest details of the mix. What you have to keep in mind is that the department heads, Supervising Sound Editor and Rerecording Mixers generally have long standing relationships, so the workflow is almost second nature. Much also depends upon the nature of the film; there is a huge difference between doing a film like "Avatar" and "She's Out of My League", the workflow will be vastly different as will the size of the audio post team. (Just for fun, "Avatar" did premix some material as some parts of the final mix exceeded the 1,000 track capability of the mixing facility.)

At my level I am - for the most part - a one man band; I do it all on my own working on severely restricted budgets. This dictates my personal work flow. I do a lot of preliminary mixing as I go but don't commit myself to anything except perhaps noise reduction. The reason is that many of my clients have little or no experience with the audio post process and lack the experience to imagine what things will sound like later. I often disable the temp EQ and effects for their first listen, then reactivate them for the second listen so they have some idea of what the finished mix will sound like; they need the reassurance and, to be honest, so do I.
 
Alcove,

Thanks for the post. I get it now - budget and time.

Have you ever considered being drafted to the big leagues? You seem to have the experience and know-how to make it.

I'm right now trying to find a good way of working on a major film sheerly for the experience and not for money - know of a good way to start looking?
 
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