Field monitor output looks better than secondary external monitors - what's truer?

I

IndiePaul

We're shooting our first movie and running into some issues...

I'm using a Small HD AC7 1280x800 resolution field monitor.

http://www.smallhd.com/products/ac7/index.html

One issue we have is during low light shooting with our Canon 6D EOS.

When looking at the scene just prior to shooting on the AC7 it looks good - low light but everything you need to see can be seen.

I have also linked the Canon to a high quality 55" HD screen (Panasonic 55'' TC-P55ST50 Plasma 3D Full HDTV) - we're shooting most of our scenes in our apartment so this screen is easily available.

Again the Canon's Live View mode view of the scene about to be shot looks good on the Panasonic 55'' - similar to the AC7s.

But after shooting, I take the MOV files to my laptop (Samsung Series 9 - processor-integrated Intel GMA HD 3000 graphics card). On its two external monitors the captured scenes look about 25% darker, too dark - they don't look good. I can increase the contrast and brightness of the monitors but the scenes still look badly shot.

So what gives? Am I being a fool for trusting my field monitors?

I have Adobe Premiere but have no experience with it yet. If need be, hopefully I'll be able to save these scenes in post.

I bought a high quality field monitor to help avoid these issues...

Your guidance would be hugely appreciated.

---------------------------------------------------------
--- laptop's external monitors
---------------------------------------------------------

Philips Brilliance AMVA LCD monitor, LED backlight 273P3QPYEB P-line 27" / 68.6cm Full HD AMVA display
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=au&ctn=273P3QPYEB/00

BenQ RL2450HT 24" LED LCD
http://www.benq.ca/product/monitor/rl2450ht/

I have not calibrated the Philips or BenQ. Am using the factory default settings on both.

For the AC7 - I'm using their factory default settings.
 
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Thanks wheatgrinder.

I'll try that.

It's been a real nightmare - the low-light scenes looking great on our SmallHD field monitor then basically crap when we play it back later on my laptop's external monitors...
 
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Hey,

I guess this is either a conversion problem or the laptop monitor you are using is rubbish. Need more detail to give a better answer. I wouldn't worry too much as if what you captured looks good on the oled display it means the detail is most likely there in the original files unless something during capture went very wrong (example the output on the camera changes gamma compared to capture? im not a camera guy :P).

My money is on the monitor you are using being the problem tho. I would say the 7" OLED you used on set is most accurate, but i say that loosely, as if none of these monitors have been calibrated you are not going to see a accurate representation of how the footage is. Its just the OLED has the best contrast.

What are you looking at the footage on through premiere? If its some TFT LCD panel I wouldn't be surprised if it looks nothing like what it does on set.
 
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Is it possible that your field monitor has some sort of backlighting that's artifically making the image appear different?

Does it look different than it does in the camera's LCD when you're on set? Which one is closer to the look you're getting in the camera's display?
 
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Thanks for the further replies and advice. :)

Jooble said:
What are you looking at the footage on through premiere? If its some TFT LCD panel I wouldn't be surprised if it looks nothing like what it does on set.
Click to expand...

My Small HD AC7 field monitor is the 7" IPS LCD (1280x800 resolution, 8-bit color depth) model - not the OLED model. The OLED was way over my budget. I burst it a bit paying $600 for the AC7 model I bought.

I'm looking at the footage at home through premiere using these:

Philips Brilliance AMVA LCD monitor, LED backlight 273P3QPYEB P-line 27" / 68.6cm Full HD AMVA display
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/d...=273P3QPYEB/00

BenQ RL2450HT 24" LED LCD
http://www.benq.ca/product/monitor/rl2450ht/

...they're not TFT displays but are far from being pro-level. But I was still hoping the footage would be similar to what my field monitor showed - not 25%+ off.

I have ordered this to calibrate both external monitors:

X-Rite ColorMunki Display
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414919,00.asp

It looks like I should have also invested in a much better quality external display. Damn... I don't really have the budget for that now...

Dreadylocks said:
Is it possible that your field monitor has some sort of backlighting that's artifically making the image appear different?

Does it look different than it does in the camera's LCD when you're on set? Which one is closer to the look you're getting in the camera's display?
Click to expand...

As far as I am aware the AC7 does not have back lighting.

AC7 field monitor specs
http://www.smallhd.com/products/ac7/specs.html

In relation to comparing it to my camera's LCD, the pain is that the Canon detects that an external field monitor is connected and turns off the camera's display. I'll unplug it then plug it back in and do some side by side comparisons.

I will say that the AC7 display looks fantastic - it is so sharp. So hopefully it will be the truer picture. But it looks like post-production is going to be near impossible with my present external monitors. Maybe the calibration will help a lot... Otherwise I don't know what I'm going to do....
 
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I have the AC7, its crushing your 1080p signal to 720p, it does it in a way that generally looks good; how I don't know but you are down-rezing the image so it tends to look 'better'.

If its a colour issue the AC7 has 10 profiles you can pick from, but there is a catch - you need to set them up in the menu.

My suggestion, film a clapper board with colour or a colour board then output to a known colour correct monitor, then adjust the AC7 colour profile settings until the colours match when viewing them together - labour intensive yes but then the monitor should be accurate (I don't know how much colour drift they may have - likely very little).

There may be a colour correcting tool out there (spyder?) that may be able to tell you what settings to change (how off you are from true colour) but I haven't tried that.
 
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Yea I guess they are bog standard consumer monitors. Give them a calibrate and see if it helps. However they may not be able to hit the rec709 standard. But it will improve things just to at least optimise them. Turn off any auto contrast mode on your monitor btw. That just messes up the calibration.
 
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Also, Quicktime has some strange gamma correction settings you might be interested in turning off.

At the end of the day, it depends what your output is. If your output is web (and therefore computer), I'd take what it looks like on your computer as the general consensus of what it will look like on computers - most people don't have calibrated monitors, gamma turned off in QT etc. so if you tailor it to look good on your computer, then it should look decent across multiple computers.

If your delivery is somewhere other than web, that's a different story.
 
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Zebras, scopes and waveform tell you the truth about brightness.
Did you use Magic Lantarn on your 6D?

Screen can look much brighter in lowlight situations.
Some HD screens automaticly adjust brightness and contrast to 'enhance viewing experience'.

For colorcorrection in PPro I really recommend Colorista II.
Once you understand how to read waveforms, it's a great tool!
 
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Use your waveform, false colour, and/or your meter for exposure. Don't trust your screens unless they're properly calibrated (and even then).

I am yet to use the AC7, but have used the DP6 quite a lot (and the DP4 a little). IIRC, they both give False Colour, so you should be able to use that to monitor your exposure.
I remember finding the DP4 and DP6 quite intriguing in terms of the picture they produced - it was often a lot warmer and contrasty than what was being recorded - and even what was being shown on other monitors (i.e. different colours and contrast compared to the RED monitor).

I shot a film late last year on a 5DmkIII. I used a DP4 as an EVF and the image looked pretty decent on the DP4. The rushes looked significantly colder, less sharp, less contrasty etc.
A colour grade could get a similar looking image back, but I did find it strange at the time that the DP4 was giving me such a different looking image.

YMMV
 
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Thanks for the great advice wheatgrinder, Jooble, Dreadylocks, Graeme, jax_rox, WalterB - I'll take it all on-board. I hugely appreciate your feedback and guidance.

WalterB said:
Did you use Magic Lantarn on your 6D?
Click to expand...

No. But I'll install it - hopefully over the weekend.

Our target audience is festivals but great point regarding web audience and non-calibrated monitors.
 
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