Few questions concerning gear for a documentary

[Joshua_1]

I'm going to start shooting a documentary soon, possibly next week.

It is based on a marvelous and magnificent story, that sounds like a fairly tale, thou it's a true one, told by a retired army general. Because of the story is so good, it has potential for screening on festivals (should it be well executed). I'm quite sure it will be broadcasted at least on a local (Israeli) HD TV channel.

It would have two parts.

The first part will be straight interviews (actually testimonies) of some of the characters involved in the story. Few people will narrate their story to the camera and mike, each individual separately, at each individual's home.

The second part will be a docu-drama, or staged, where actors will represent parts of the chain of events. It will probably be shot in a studio.

Right now there is almost zero budget. It all comes from my pocket, which (me being retired) is almost empty these days. My plan is to shoot first the interviews (or testimonies) part, which can be done with my meager budget. I own a Canon 7D camera with few good lenses and I'll purchase within few days some more lenses. The audio and lighting gear will probably be rented.

Only after having the full text of all the testimonies, I'll be able to write the full script for the entire movie, including the docu-drama (staged) part.

With the video of the testimonies and the full script I'll be able to apply to few sponsors (local organizations that support documentaries). It seems to me that there are good chances for me to get sponsors and reasonable budget.

If and when there will be reasonable budget, I'll be able to start the second, staged part, hire entire crew, actors, studio and rent the needed gear and then have proper post production.

Yet, shooting the interviews should be fully professional, both video and audio, suitable for HD TV and festivals screening. This is because of the main story teller is approaching 90 years old, so the final shooting of the main interview would better be done on the coming weeks.

My following questions concern, at this point, only the first part of the movie – shooting the interviews, or testimonies.

The questions:

1. Audio gear.

1a. Mike, or microphones. What are your recommendations?

1b. External recorder, with or without a separate mike pre-amp, or mixer. What are your recommendations?


2. Frame rate.

Residing in a PAL country and considering that the only thing that has some certainty to it is broadcasting on a local HD TV station: is it better to shoot on 25p, or 24p? What are the reasons or considerations for each frame rate?


3. Magic Lantern hack.

Is it recommended (for the 7D)? What settings are recommended? Does it allow RAW output? If yes, is it recommended?


4. Editing software.

I'll have to edit the first part on my own (having no budget at this stage for post production). What software is recommended (video, audio and possibly sync)?

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

For editing, I'd go ahead and buy Adobe CC.

It includes an editing program, an audio program, a photo manipulation program, a VFX program, etc.

You may want to contact the station you will be broadcasting the film on. They might want 24, 25, 30, or 60 fps, etc.

Magic Lantern is good, but you will want to have some time to get to the new menu and features. You also risk ruining your DSLR. Canon is not responsible for any problems with the camera. I've heard stories about a guy who ruined his 5D.

Good luck!

 

[Joshua_1]

Thanks.

…
You may want to contact the station you will be broadcasting the film on. They might want 24, 25, 30, or 60 fps, etc.

They broadcast 25 fps, they accept films of all frame rates and convert them to the broadcasting standard, 25 fps.
My question was about what will look best, potentially for both broadcasting and screening.

Magic Lantern is good, but you will want to have some time to get to the new menu and features. You also risk ruining your DSLR. Canon is not responsible for any problems with the camera. I've heard stories about a guy who ruined his 5D.

Yes, I know it voids warranty and that Canon isn't responsible.
Any horror stories concerning Magic Lantern and 7D?

Good luck!

Thank you very much.

 

[jax_rox]

They broadcast 25 fps, they accept films of all frame rates and convert them to the broadcasting standard, 25 fps.
My question was about what will look best, potentially for both broadcasting and screening.

You won't see a visible difference between 24p and 25p. 24p will only cause you headaches later.

Shoot 25.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Thanks.They broadcast 25 fps, they accept films of all frame rates and convert them to the broadcasting standard, 25 fps.
My question was about what will look best, potentially for both broadcasting and screening.

Both look the same. Most everyone can't tell the difference between 25 and 24fps. I'd recommend going with 25fps though.

Yes, I know it voids warranty and that Canon isn't responsible.
Any horror stories concerning Magic Lantern and 7D?

Not specifically the 7D.

Thank you very much.

No problem

 

[Joshua_1]

Thanks, both.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Because of the story is so good, it has potential for screening on festivals (should it be well executed). I'm quite sure it will be broadcasted at least on a local (Israeli) HD TV channel.

You've bitten off a big bite. You definitely should be renting what you need for the interviews. For the rest, if you get your funding, you should hire a pro, or at the least retain an ambitious up-and-coming PSM/Boom-op (PSM = Production Sound Mixer). If you're shooting for festivals and even local broadcast audio is no area for dabblers.

Audio gear.

1a. Mike, or microphones. What are your recommendations?

1b. External recorder, with or without a separate mike pre-amp, or mixer. What are your recommendations?Editing software.

First off - RENT!!! The quality will be far superior to anything you could buy.

For your interviews you should get a good quality lav mic. If you or someone else will be asking the interviewees questions then you should get two lavs. The lav can be hard-wired if it's a sit down interview but a wireless lav is fine if that's all you can get. You'll need a decent audio recorder. And good mixer is highly desired, but not absolutely required. You'll need a good set of headphones. You should probably buy the headphones, the Sony MDR-7506 or Sennheiser HD-25 are both widely used.

Once you get to the production of the re-enactments, etc. this should be of some help:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=49443&highlight=$1,200


Yup, $1,200 is a big chuck of change. But that's the price for prosumer quality. Pretty cheap when you consider that a professional sound cart can easily cost US$50,000 and up - and I mean UP!


Even more important than the gear is knowledge, techniques and skills. Not to pee on your parade but these are not easily acquired. The same applies to the audio post portion of your project. Festivals have specific audio standards - you'll need to ask the festivals - and broadcast has even more stringent audio requirements.

I tried to glance at a few Israeli rental pages, but they were in Hebrew (I guess!). Nose round to find a reputable rental house, explain exactly what you want to do and see what recommendations they make.


Good luck!!!

 

[Joshua_1]

You've bitten off a big bite.

Indeed.

You definitely should be renting what you need for the interviews. For the rest, if you get your funding, you should hire a pro, or at the least retain an ambitious up-and-coming PSM/Boom-op (PSM = Production Sound Mixer). If you're shooting for festivals and even local broadcast audio is no area for dabblers.

First off - RENT!!! The quality will be far superior to anything you could buy.

That's my plan.

Once you get to the production of the re-enactments, etc. this should be of some help:
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=49443&highlight=$1,200
Yup, $1,200 is a big chuck of change. But that's the price for prosumer quality. Pretty cheap when you consider that a professional sound cart can easily cost US$50,000 and up - and I mean UP!

First, I'm going to rent, not purchase.
Second, I wonder if everything on that list is of a real pro level. For instance, I guess the Tascam DR-40 or the Roland R-26 aren't. Therefore I need a more focused list.

Even more important than the gear is knowledge, techniques and skills. Not to pee on your parade but these are not easily acquired. The same applies to the audio post portion of your project.
…

I know.
Having no other choice, I'll shoot (and record and light) the first part myself, since right now there is zero budget and zero funding. If and when there will be funding for the second part - all the crew will be pros, including a producer.

Good luck!!!

Thank you.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Second, I wonder if everything on that list is of a real pro level.

As I said, that was Prosumer...



Good names for recorders and mixers are Sound Devices, Nagra and Zaxcom - sorry, I don't know European or Middle Eastern equivalents.

Mics - Sennheiser, Sanken, Schoeps, Neumann.

Lavs - Countryman, Sanken, Tram.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Good advice as ever from Alcove, he knows more than me about production sound recording. I would add that getting decent quality production recordings is usually exceptionally important with documentaries, even more so than for features. This is because the fallback of ADR is not usually an option with documentaries because the subjects are not performing a script but talking from their heart/experience and because they likely do not have the availability or experience to perform ADR. So, I'd definitely second Alcove's advice to hire a production sound pro and hire pro level equipment. A decent Production Sound Mixer will have their own gear and their rental charges for using that gear is probably built into the price they quote you but check to make sure!

Good names for recorders and mixers are Sound Devices, Nagra and Zaxcom - sorry, I don't know European or Middle Eastern equivalents...Mics - Sennheiser, Sanken, Schoeps, Neumann...Lavs - Countryman, Sanken, Tram.

Same names in Europe (and worldwide AFAIK), in fact some of those names are European!

You've received some strange advice regarding frame rates! Frame rates could be a tricky problem. HDTV in PAL countries is broadcast at 1080i50 (50 interlaced fields per second), so 25fps would be ideal and the conversion from the 25p should be painless. Where you might run into problems is at local film festivals and what equipment they are using to project the films. If the cinemas are projecting digitally they will be using DCP format. In theory the DCP format allows for 25fps but older DCP projection systems need an upgrade, otherwise they are limited to 24fps. Be aware that when most/many DSLRs say 24p they are not actually 24fps but 23.976fps (the same as NTSC was not actually 30fps but 29.97). If the festival is hooking up a BluRay player to their system then you might be OK with your 1080p25 video (or even the USA 23.976fps). This is something you should definitely find out before you start filming, changing between frame rates is likely to cause audio/picture sync issues!

Regarding the audio formats: The international audio standard for HDTV is Dolby Digital, so you'll need to have the software and know how to use it to create an acceptable Dolby Digital datastream. What is "acceptable" will depend on the broadcaster's specs and/or your country's audio regulations. In America this is defined by the ATSC A85 spec and the EU countries are mostly now using the EBU R128 spec but again you need to get hold of your broadcaster's audio specs. Note that some HDTV broadcasters require delivery in Dolby E format (which is then converted to Dolby Digital automatically by the broadcast chain). Due to HDTV only using Dolby Digital for broadcast, broadcasters virtually always require a 5.1 mix. However, it's possible they might allow an LtRt (4.0) stereo mix or even a 2.0 LoRo stereo mix (though still in Dolby Digital format), again, you will need to check carefully the broadcaster's specs. For DCP you cannot use a 2.0 LoRo (or an LtRt) stereo mix though, because 3 channels (L, C, R) is the minimum requirement for DCP. Also, the audio format is separate wav files, DCP does not support Dolby Digital! All in all, you will most probably need a 5.1 mix, which of course is going to require you either have the equipment/facilities and knowledge to create a 5.1 mix or hire someone who does. BTW, BluRay allows pretty much any audio format but be aware 2.0 LoRo stereo does not work properly in cinemas (this thread explains why).

For editing I would highly recommend AVID Media Composer over Premiere, FCPX, Vegas or any of the other options. If you do find you need a 5.1 mix and have to hire audio post personnel, AVID will give you by far the best chance of exchanging materials easily and error free with them. The other programs require work-arounds, trial & error or additional software to successfully exchange materials or will not exchange materials at all!

G

 

[Joshua_1]

Good names for recorders and mixers are Sound Devices, Nagra and Zaxcom - sorry, I don't know European or Middle Eastern equivalents.
Mics - Sennheiser, Sanken, Schoeps, Neumann.
Lavs - Countryman, Sanken, Tram.

Thanks.
1. Brand names are the same all over the world.
2. Market-wise and TV-wise, Israel belongs to Europe.
3. Nagra, Schoeps and Sennheiser are European companies, Sanken is Japanese company.
4. Brand names without specific models is of only little use for me.

 

[Joshua_1]

Thank you.

... I would add that getting decent quality production recordings is usually exceptionally important with documentaries, even more so than for features.

It is so and I'm well aware of it.

... So, I'd definitely second Alcove's advice to hire a production sound pro and hire pro level equipment.

For the first part (the interviews, or testimonies), there is no funding and budget.
I'll hire pro audio gear, however, unless I'll find a volunteer experienced sound man, I'll have to do it on my own. I simply don't have the dough to hire any professional.

… so 25fps would be ideal and the conversion from the 25p should be painless.
Where you might run into problems is at local film festivals and what equipment they are using to project the films.

That's what I gave in mind: to shoot on 25 fps.
The final movie may well have three versions, 1080p25, 1080p24 and 1080p23.976.
AFAIK, conversion from 1080p25 to the other two formats can be done in the post production studio (possibly also on my own PC, with the right software).

Regarding the audio formats: The international audio standard for HDTV is Dolby Digital, so you'll need to have the software and know how to use it to create an acceptable Dolby Digital datastream.

Audio will be recorded on PCM and will be converted to the necessary format at the post production studio (possibly also on my own PC, with the right software).
Again, The final movie may well have few versions, of few audio formats.

For editing I would highly recommend AVID Media Composer over Premiere, FCPX, Vegas or any of the other options.

Thank you.

If you do find you need a 5.1 mix and have to hire audio post personnel, AVID will give you by far the best chance of exchanging materials easily and error free with them. The other programs require work-arounds, trial & error or additional software to successfully exchange materials or will not exchange materials at all!

Thanks.

Again, post production will be done in a pro post studio.

Should there be a sword next to my throat (no funding at all), I'll do it myself, on my own PC. Being an ex- sound engineer and a tech wiz, I know I can do it good enough and professional enough.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Brand names are the same all over the world......Nagra, Schoeps and Sennheiser are European companies, Sanken is Japanese company.

No kidding. There are some brands that are available here in the US that are not available in other parts of the world, and vice versa.

I recommended that you contact rental houses and see what they have available. I didn't mention model numbers as it makes more sense to find out what is available to you. Why tell you to get a CMIT5U when the odds are that nobody near you rents one? I gave the "big" names - with the exception of Sennheiser (who make budget and mid-priced products) the only products those companies make are professional quality - so you would have some familiarity if you did not already know those names when you browsed the web sites of the rental houses. You also mentioned that you have no budget, so even renting top quality gear may be beyond your means.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

First, I'm going to rent, not purchase.
Second, I wonder if everything on that list is of a real pro level. For instance, I guess the Tascam DR-40 or the Roland R-26 aren't. Therefore I need a more focused list.

Thank you.

What's your budget? That would probably help the audio guys give you a better answer.

Like Alcove said, a pro sound cart can cost 50 grand and up.

You're not going to have pro gear on a low/no budget.

 

[Joshua_1]

…
I recommended that you contact rental houses and see what they have available.
…

I just browsed few local rental companies web pages.
Pro video and audio gear of all flavors are available.
(There is movie and TV production industry in Israel).

... You also mentioned that you have no budget, so even renting top quality gear may be beyond your means.

For the first part, 3 interviews, 3 shooting days, I can afford renting full pro audio and video + lighting gear. With careful planning, I may squeeze it into 2 shooting days. Being one-man-band at the moment, it will be very tight, but it may be doable.

On a second thought, it's quite possible that I'll be able to summon the 3 story-tellers to one place, so one shooting day will cover the first part. I'll talk with the main story-teller and explore that option with him. Since he is interested in having this documentary done, there is a good chance that he will agree gladly. (The second story-teller is his daughter and the third one is a person who saved her life).

On a third thought, having each one of them telling the story separately, each from one's own angle, plus having the three of them together, in the same shot, would bring additional flavor to the movie.

As for conveying the plot, the main story-teller is enough. However, the story is so fantastic, so fairy-tale-like, that all angles should be told, in order to attach credibility to the fantastic chain of events. Without other, supporting, testimonies, many would think that the story is fake, or imaginary, because of it's so fantastic.

(This [fantastic story] may explain why, at the age of 70, I decided to make my first movie).

---

As for the second part, the staged scenes, I wouldn't be able to do them without funds. However, seeing some of the local documentaries that were sponsored, I see no reason why my movie wouldn't be sponsored.

 

[Joshua_1]

What's your budget? That would probably help the audio guys give you a better answer.

Like Alcove said, a pro sound cart can cost 50 grand and up.

You're not going to have pro gear on a low/no budget.

My budget is close to zero, say, about $1,000 for the entire enchilada.
I can rent the needed pro gear (for the first part of the interviews).
I checked availability and prices and I can afford it.
For the 3 interviews, I don't need a sound cart.
For audio I need a couple of mikes, boom-on-a-tripod and external recorder.
All the above of full pro level.
For video, I'll probably rent Canon C100, use my canon glass, rent external video recorder and some lights. (I prefer the C100 over Black Magic or Red).
In addition, I'll shoot with my 7D as a backup camera, or for inter-cuts from slightly different angle. I may rent a second external video recorder for the 7D, so that both cameras would record in the same format, to ease cutting between them. I have enough massive tripods and a cine fluid head.

 

[Morris]

As others have said in the past, it is not just having the gear but being able to use it properly. You will need others to help, because it is extremely difficult to try and do everything by yourself. It is hard to monitor sound while filming and interviewing.

 

[Joshua_1]

I'm looking for volunteers (in my country). So far none showed up.

This film will be made, this way or another. It will be made with whatever means I'll have at any given point in time.