Exporting Sony Vegas AAF files to DP8
- Thread starter dr stilly
- Start date
Sorry, I don't know either Vegas or DP but I can give you a little background info which might help:
There are two basic types of AAF, embedded AAF and linked AAF, although your software might have slightly different names for them. AAF is essentially a container file format; an Embedded AAF is where the audio files are actually stored in the AAF itself, whereas a linked AAF just contains links or references to the audio files. When you open a linked AAF you will be asked to specify the folder where the audio files are stored and then your audio software will read and load all the audio files, editing and positioning those edits as specified in the AAF. There are several advantages to a linked AAF but of course if you just send the AAF without a folder containing all the linked audio files it will just appear to be empty. This could be what you have done, although there are other reasons why the AAF might appear to be empty.
The usual method of creating an AAF is for the AAF to only contain all the audio tracks and edits in your sequence, not the video. You should render the final edit of your video in a format specified by your sound person and supply that separately, then delete the video tracks from your Vegas session before creating the AAF. Obviously it makes sense to do all this on a copy of your Vegas session. If you've never done it before, it can take quite a few attempts before you hit on the correct combination of settings which will create a usable AAF, so work with just a 20 secs or so segment to speed things up until you know your sound person can open your AAFs successfully. One of the things which can make an AAF fail (or at least fail to open properly) is if you include audio of different formats, say wav files and mp3 files or 44.1kHz sample rate files and 48kHz files or 16bit and 24bit, even mono and stereo or polywav formats. In theory AAF should handle all these different file types and formats fine, in practise it doesn't always work that way. Best to convert all your audio to the TV and Film standard of 24bit/48kHz wav files before you create your AAF.
It's possible that there is no combination of settings in Vegas which will allow the creation of an AAF which can be opened successfully in DP. This is because what AAF attempts to achieve is very complex and rarely used except in professional audio post. DP is not specifically designed for audio post, most DP users use it for creating music and most Vegas users also don't need AAF functionality either, so it's possible that not as much programming time and effort has gone into AAF functionality as required. Logic for example has always been flakey trying to open AAFs, which is one of the reasons why it's virtually never used by audio post professionals and Premiere also seems to have a problem creating AAFs. An older version of AAF is called OMF and it might (or might not) be that you have more success creating (and importing into DP) an OMF file rather than an AAF. This whole AAF/OMF creation and import issue is one of the reasons why the professional NLE marketplace tends to be dominated by Avid and FCP7 and why ProTools dominates the audio post side.
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There are two basic types of AAF, embedded AAF and linked AAF, although your software might have slightly different names for them. AAF is essentially a container file format; an Embedded AAF is where the audio files are actually stored in the AAF itself, whereas a linked AAF just contains links or references to the audio files. When you open a linked AAF you will be asked to specify the folder where the audio files are stored and then your audio software will read and load all the audio files, editing and positioning those edits as specified in the AAF. There are several advantages to a linked AAF but of course if you just send the AAF without a folder containing all the linked audio files it will just appear to be empty. This could be what you have done, although there are other reasons why the AAF might appear to be empty.
The usual method of creating an AAF is for the AAF to only contain all the audio tracks and edits in your sequence, not the video. You should render the final edit of your video in a format specified by your sound person and supply that separately, then delete the video tracks from your Vegas session before creating the AAF. Obviously it makes sense to do all this on a copy of your Vegas session. If you've never done it before, it can take quite a few attempts before you hit on the correct combination of settings which will create a usable AAF, so work with just a 20 secs or so segment to speed things up until you know your sound person can open your AAFs successfully. One of the things which can make an AAF fail (or at least fail to open properly) is if you include audio of different formats, say wav files and mp3 files or 44.1kHz sample rate files and 48kHz files or 16bit and 24bit, even mono and stereo or polywav formats. In theory AAF should handle all these different file types and formats fine, in practise it doesn't always work that way. Best to convert all your audio to the TV and Film standard of 24bit/48kHz wav files before you create your AAF.
It's possible that there is no combination of settings in Vegas which will allow the creation of an AAF which can be opened successfully in DP. This is because what AAF attempts to achieve is very complex and rarely used except in professional audio post. DP is not specifically designed for audio post, most DP users use it for creating music and most Vegas users also don't need AAF functionality either, so it's possible that not as much programming time and effort has gone into AAF functionality as required. Logic for example has always been flakey trying to open AAFs, which is one of the reasons why it's virtually never used by audio post professionals and Premiere also seems to have a problem creating AAFs. An older version of AAF is called OMF and it might (or might not) be that you have more success creating (and importing into DP) an OMF file rather than an AAF. This whole AAF/OMF creation and import issue is one of the reasons why the professional NLE marketplace tends to be dominated by Avid and FCP7 and why ProTools dominates the audio post side.
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Thanks for the reply. I didn't embed the file which could be the issue. When saving the AAF in vegas there is a tick-box that reads: Embed Wave/AIFC media. It's off by defult but when I saved a version using this the file took a while to create and ended up about 10gb. So he's coming over tomo to test this.
He originally asked for an OMF but unfortunately Vegas doesn't support OMF. Only AAF and EDL.
I think only some music tracks may have different sample rates but I'm sure he wouldn't mind importing them separately. Also I wonder if because he has a Mac book pro and I have a PC this may contribute to compatibility issues .
We'll have a play tomo and see what works. Thanks for the ideas.
He originally asked for an OMF but unfortunately Vegas doesn't support OMF. Only AAF and EDL.
I think only some music tracks may have different sample rates but I'm sure he wouldn't mind importing them separately. Also I wonder if because he has a Mac book pro and I have a PC this may contribute to compatibility issues .
We'll have a play tomo and see what works. Thanks for the ideas.
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No, OMF and AAF are completely platform independent, it's purely a software thing, your Vegas and/or his DP8.
It became 10GB because all the video and audio in your timeline was copied into the AAF container. Don't forget to remove the video (and video tracks) from the timeline before you export an AAF. An embedded AAF will obviously have a much larger filesize than a linked AAF but of course a linked AAF requires you to send all the audio files separately in addition to the AAF file, which totals much more data than an embedded AAF. This is because an embedded AAF only includes the audio present in the actual edits plus a user definable handle, commonly 2 seconds. This is why a linked AAF is better, because it gives the audio post team/person access to the entire audio file and not just the portion (+4secs) which appears in your timeline.
I once had trouble on a very small project with an editor trying to export an AAF from Vegas (and me import into ProTools), we only had time for two or three attempts and had to give up. If you do find a way to successfully create an AAF and you have time, would you mind posting your settings up here for future reference please?
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As a Pro Tools user I have NEVER been able to open an AAF file from Vegas, although I have not had problems with AAF from other platforms once the editor found the correct output format. Supposedly the issue has been resolved with the latest version of Vegas but works only with PT 10.x. I've never tried importing AAF into DP.
DP can be a lot of fun for doing sound effects work but I export the results back to PT for integration into the project. (I especially like DP for music purposes, and the MIDI implementation is fantastic.)
DP can be a lot of fun for doing sound effects work but I export the results back to PT for integration into the project. (I especially like DP for music purposes, and the MIDI implementation is fantastic.)
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After much testing the solution seems to be, as Alcove suggested, to upgrade to Sony Vegas 12. The export functions of V12 are more specified e.g Pro Tools compliant aaf is what we are using and so far so good. I tried everything with V11 to no avail.
Will update after more testing. Thanks.
Will update after more testing. Thanks.
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Glad you seem to have got it sorted, make note of the settings so you know for next time and don't have to go through all the hassle again!
Although not aimed specifically at Vegas users (Premiere, FCP7 and FCPX), this link provides useful info on creating OMFs and AAFs and is worth posting up on IT as a resource/reference for others:
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Although not aimed specifically at Vegas users (Premiere, FCP7 and FCPX), this link provides useful info on creating OMFs and AAFs and is worth posting up on IT as a resource/reference for others:
OMF and AAF – Tut for Video Producers
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After updating to Vegas 12 the problem still exists. Although PT recognizing the files and tracks and even imports some audio (Music tracks and even in camera audio track) the dialogue tracks are still silent. When I export from Vegas it creates numerous aiff files and on some settings the source files themselves cannot play in any media player (unlike the music and the camera tracks). I did tweak until the source files played but they would still not play in PT.
Anyway, time is of the essence so my sound guy is taking my PC to his studio and will work from Vegas to get everything mixed. Then we'll render each stem into his tools. That's the plan.
Alcove can I ask - you mentioned you managed to get AAF's into pro tools from another platform with the correct output format - which platform was it from and can you specify the output format?
Anyway, time is of the essence so my sound guy is taking my PC to his studio and will work from Vegas to get everything mixed. Then we'll render each stem into his tools. That's the plan.
Alcove can I ask - you mentioned you managed to get AAF's into pro tools from another platform with the correct output format - which platform was it from and can you specify the output format?
Obviously Avid and FCP7 can export usable AAFs, that's one of the reasons why the industry relies on these two editing platforms so heavily. For ways to create usable AAFs in Premiere and FCPX, see the link I posted above. FCPX requires the purchase of additional 3rd party software by the way.
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Yes that Duck transfer (cannot remember the name) is a third party that allows AAf's from FCPx. One last option for me is Sony vegas 12 also exports to FCP7 so maybe I can import into FCP and export to an AAF. Seems like quite the hasstle though plus I'm not sure if I trust any export platform from Vegas now.
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I'm not sure that Automatic Duck works with FCPX or works well with FCPX, just for OMF/AAF export from FCP7. For FCPX you really need X2Pro. Both of these routes (FCP7 + Automatic Duck or FCPX + X2Pro) produce OMFs/AAFs which will import successfully into ProTools, whether they will import successfully into Digital Performer I can't say.
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I think it was Avid - I'm not really sure, it was quite a while ago. I have no idea what settings the editor used; she was in Nebraska and I never met her.