Thats the question I impose to you. Does the editing system in which you edit on really matter when it comes to getting a job in the film industry? I'm a Lightworks editor and I don't think they're that many of us out there. I worked with Final Cut Pro 7, Premiere and even got to try Avid once but none of them made as much sense to me as Lightworks. I feel really comfortable with it and it's console. Now do people favor Avid and Final Cut as apposed to Premiere, Vegas, Lightworks, Edius, Media100 and so on? Do they also tell you what you have to use? Like say I get hired to work on a movie doing editing will they tell me I have to cut on Avid or do I get to choose?
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Does the editing system matter
- Thread starter DJFJEKETE
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A long, long time ago, FCP was the best editing suite available to regular folk. Regular folk who were interested in film editing bought it up. And they stuck with it.
I wouldn't know, but I've heard that the truly top-dollar editing suites all go with Avid.
Premiere is the best. A couple years ago, this comment would've been considered mere opinion. These days, it's kinda common knowledge. Premiere is the tits, there's no arguing that.
Ironically, Premiere is not what I recommend for you. You're keen to get a job in the industry, and the industry has a preferred format that they foolishly cling to. For sake of job-security, you should learn and master Final Cut. Truth be told, it's a solid piece of software.
I wouldn't know, but I've heard that the truly top-dollar editing suites all go with Avid.
Premiere is the best. A couple years ago, this comment would've been considered mere opinion. These days, it's kinda common knowledge. Premiere is the tits, there's no arguing that.
Ironically, Premiere is not what I recommend for you. You're keen to get a job in the industry, and the industry has a preferred format that they foolishly cling to. For sake of job-security, you should learn and master Final Cut. Truth be told, it's a solid piece of software.
Personally I vouch for Vegas. If you live in America learn Avid if you're within Hollywood or any big production company. If you live in UK learn Premiere as the BBC now use it. If you're freelance, feel free to use what you wish.
Yes and No.
YES - because on a feature film or TV series, you have to interface with different systems for color grading, visual FX, sound mixing, sound design, ADR, etc. If your files or workflow your editing software makes a difference.
NO - because it's the artist not the brush. Even ancient software can be adapted to conform to most workflows in some form or another.
Spielberg still edits film from a work print and the old movieola editing tables, although WAR HORSE and TIN TIN were edited with Avid.
As we're talking about the professional market, this quoted statement is not true. At one point Avid totally dominated the professional NLE market, FCP gradually eroded that market dominance down to about 65%. There are several reasons why Avid have dominated and continue to be the biggest player in professional NLEditors, Sonnyboo has listed many of them. You have to realise that professional audio post is almost totally dominated by ProTools and guess who makes ProTools?
As a professional editor you can make a living without knowing Avid but you are significantly reducing your opportunities if you don't know it inside out.
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I guess I'll just stick with Lightworks then..... Been using it for a good 2 years and it feels comfortable. I have a pretty good setup and I don't want to change it. Maybe In time it will change but for now I'll stick with what I got. I do have one question though when it comes to different editing systems does not using Avid not necessarily mean I won't get hired? I think all editors pretty much do the same thing. So if a director hires me for a job and I tell him I use Lightworks would I be allowed to use that to edit a film? Like if I provided my own system and everything?
You're missing the point to a large extent. It is possible that you could get hired and be allowed to use what ever you want. There's also a good chance that you will have to fit in with existing systems, workflows and expectations, in which case you may not be allowed to use Lightworks. Because most professional systems are Avids, if you only know one NLE inside out, it makes sense for that NLE to be Avid. Most experienced pros are expert with Avid and also with another package like FCP7, to 90% or so cover themselves for what they are likely to be required to use. There are going to be very, very few pro editing jobs come up where the editor is required to use Lightworks.
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I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I think we're having mis-communication issues. I did mention Avid as the editing suite of the top-dollar pros.
There is more than one level of industry professional. Though I don't work in the industry, I'm friends/acquaintances with a handful of people who are, and not one of them edits on Avid. Avid is expensive, even compared to Final Cut.
The guy who edited the trailer for "Lincoln" -- he probably edited on Avid. The guy who edited the commercial for your local Jeep/Honda dealership -- he most certainly edited on FCP.
Truth be told, the cross-over between programs is pretty great. If you learn and master one of them, it's actually very easy to pick up another.
To the OP -- if your goal is simply to get a job in the industry, I don't recommend spending a bunch of money on a new editing suite. Local production companies offer internships, and those often lead to full-time jobs. You will learn the software you need to learn, on the job.
Just like everything else, it depends.
These days there's not a lot of real differences between the editing suites. Some perform a little better, do certain things a little worse, have little quirks, have a few extra bells and whistles, let you use particular formats but not others, but for the basic editing functions, each package is going to do most of what an editor will ever need to do.
As for getting a job, that doesn't really depend on the software but on the person/people/company doing the hiring. You're going to have an advantage in knowing multiple editing systems and platforms, especially the more known systems. All of the above mentioned editing systems have been used to make movies. If you're going for a job requiring experience in Avid, you may encounter troubles with only having Lightworks as your experience, or you might find that your raw talent might be so far beyond your competition that your new employer won't mind investing some time/money into porting their systems over to what you use or teaching you what you need to know to work on their systems.
These days there's not a lot of real differences between the editing suites. Some perform a little better, do certain things a little worse, have little quirks, have a few extra bells and whistles, let you use particular formats but not others, but for the basic editing functions, each package is going to do most of what an editor will ever need to do.
As for getting a job, that doesn't really depend on the software but on the person/people/company doing the hiring. You're going to have an advantage in knowing multiple editing systems and platforms, especially the more known systems. All of the above mentioned editing systems have been used to make movies. If you're going for a job requiring experience in Avid, you may encounter troubles with only having Lightworks as your experience, or you might find that your raw talent might be so far beyond your competition that your new employer won't mind investing some time/money into porting their systems over to what you use or teaching you what you need to know to work on their systems.
If you're a freelance editor, stick with whatever you want. If you're going for a job at a post house, or on a production with multiple editors (ie: a big production), then you want to be qualified in the editing system they'll be using (most likely Avid).
In recent years, you might have been able to get by only knowing FCP and not Avid, but as was the case before FCP acquired any market share at all, you'd be hard pressed to find an editing gig without knowing Avid - unless you're talking about editing corporate and promo videos for a graphic design firm who are already invested in the Adobe suite.
But, if you're just editing as a freelancer, use whatever you feel most comfortable with.
In recent years, you might have been able to get by only knowing FCP and not Avid, but as was the case before FCP acquired any market share at all, you'd be hard pressed to find an editing gig without knowing Avid - unless you're talking about editing corporate and promo videos for a graphic design firm who are already invested in the Adobe suite.
But, if you're just editing as a freelancer, use whatever you feel most comfortable with.
I disagree with this statement, at least in professional practise. Working professionally as an editor has different requirements to being an editor on most lo/no budget projects and it's not until you encounter these different requirements that many of the advantages of one editing system over another become apparent. Think about the situation the other way around; if you could do everything as efficiently in Lightworks as you could in Avid why would any production or post house ever spend the extra thousands of dollars to use Avid systems? A classic example of this was this thread: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=44588. H44 wanted to export from Premiere to ProTools but after a month basically gave up because he couldn't figure out how to make a usable OMF and there didn't seem to be much useful info on how to do this in the manual or on the web. I still don't know if there is a bug or some special settings you need to know about, which would be useful for me to know if I ever have to work with an editor using Premiere. If H44 had been using Avid just a few minutes research would have enabled him to start creating a usable OMF or better still a linked AAF.
The point being that the vast majority of those who work on an Avid have to adhere to professional workflows so Avid is very advanced in it's capabilities in this regard and there is plenty of info and support readily available. The same appears not to be true of other packages, with the possible exception of FCP7 but even that took years to sort out and still contains a significant bug but fortunately there were enough professional users of FCP7 to figure out a workaround. FCPX was a huge price drop and does everything a no budget filmmaker would need but was a disaster when it was launched for the professional editing community because it lost much of it's functionality to operate with professional workflows.
Mmmm, it's not just big productions, even most modestly budgeted TV productions have to be handed over to sound editors. So a multiple editors workflow is standard procedure for the vast majority of professional productions, not just big film productions.
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Avid has been an industry norm for some time. It has a lot of hardware set up and plug-ins to make it work rather nicely. Those who have invested in a set-up like that are unlikely to throw that hardware away to start all over again without any significant features to justify this.
It wasn't always like that. Avid was so far beyond the competition early on, it was just bad business to set up with lesser systems. The differences aren't as black and white anymore. The differences aren't that big.
I love it, a user couldn't figure it out, therefore that software doesn't have that feature. Unfortunately H44 is still trying to learn how to use the basics in Premier Pro. No insult intended for H44, but your example isn't really worth consideration.
A google search for "Exporting Premier Pro CS6 linked AAF" showed the first link for me "http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/924680". While it doesn't show you how to do it, it does verify that the OMF exports are your best, and working option. It's not great that AAF exports crash some systems, but there is a workable workaround. I'm sure there are other free threads/articles out there if people just looked.
You're kind of proving my point here. Only being able to create an embedded OMF rather than a linked AAF is going to cause serious problems for some post workflows. It's going to take more time in audio post and therefore cost more, probably far more than it would have cost to hire an Avid rig in the first place and possibly more even than it would cost to actually purchase a new Avid! So you tell me as a filmmaker, would you rather hire an Avid and an editor who knew how to use it or run the risk of paying several hundred (or more) dollars an hour for your audio post team to try and sort out a problem which should never have existed?
I realise that the small benefit of being able to produce linked AAFs reliably and easily might not seem like much of a "black & white" difference to an amateur filmmaker but in some professional workflows it could be an absolute deal breaker!
This is only a single (but nevertheless good) example of why Avid is still the biggest player in the professional NLE market and why as a professional editor it makes good sense to learn how to use it well.
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My 2 cents on the op's original question, based on what I've experienced, yes it does make a difference. I am not a working professional (in this area), but have a handful of friends who are/want to be. And from my interactions and conversations with them, and their job hunts, knowing Avid, and FCP has been essential. I've never used Lightworks, so I can't/won't comment on it. But what I've heard from my friends, when they were looking to get hired, the businesses, in their hiring add/requirements, listed specific software they were looking to hire someone to use. Friends who had experience with an NLE, but not the one the job was for were given little to no consideration.
If you're looking to work as a freelancer, I'm sure more of APE's post are even more valid. If your post workflow can't match up, then it can hinder your ability to land a job.
I have a good deal of experience on FCP (if I have to knock something out fast, that's my go to NLE, because I know if best). I'm switching over to a more Adobe workflow (because I'm getting more in 3D animation, and compositing, and the back and forth between Premier and AE is easier). My future plan is to gain a working knowledge of Avid, because I would like to transition from my current field to a new one. And I think having a working knowledge might help me get my foot in the door in some fashion.
If you're looking to work as a freelancer, I'm sure more of APE's post are even more valid. If your post workflow can't match up, then it can hinder your ability to land a job.
I have a good deal of experience on FCP (if I have to knock something out fast, that's my go to NLE, because I know if best). I'm switching over to a more Adobe workflow (because I'm getting more in 3D animation, and compositing, and the back and forth between Premier and AE is easier). My future plan is to gain a working knowledge of Avid, because I would like to transition from my current field to a new one. And I think having a working knowledge might help me get my foot in the door in some fashion.
Yes, you're right that some software packages may not work great with other packages. For that case, you might as well throw FCP out too. What about Lightwave? You're getting bogged down in the finer details of each individual quirks of each software rather than the spirit of my original post.
Ill quote it again:
If a company/person has a particular workflow/software/hardware requirements/preferences that is going to have more to do whether you get the job. I also said, having experience in multiple packages/platforms is going to increase your chances. It's always easy to nitpick the small small details, but the truth of the matter, it doesn't matter what we think, it really comes down to what skills the employer deems is necessary for you to have. Some employers may be only looking at your talents and then may create the workflow to match. Others will only look for people they can fit into their workflow. If everyone is only hiring Avid, you better learn Avid if you want that job.
From what I have been reading on the web sites for.Human Resources for major TV networks, they want AVID and FCP editors with previous studio editing experience of three to.five years.
I advise you to Google the web sites of where you want to apply and read each studio's requirements.
Look under career opportunities.
I advise you to Google the web sites of where you want to apply and read each studio's requirements.
Look under career opportunities.
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Okay I think I understand now. If I wanna get work in a post production like working for television or at a post production place for a feature film then I will most likely have to use what they are using. I'm gonna stick to the system I'm using now. All I'm doing is making my own movies now to practice editing and show them to my friends and family. Maybe put some on Youtube but I don't know. I was just curious to when I actually start looking for a job in the field what I would encounter.
Just remember that you WILL NOT be allowed to learn the program on the job; you must be fairly well experienced when you apply for the position.
Unless it's an internship. In which case you won't get paid, so it's not really a job, so I'm not disagreeing with you. Just wanted to clarify that there is a way to receive on-the-whatever training.
