• Wondering which camera, gear, computer, or software to buy? Ask in our Gear Guide.

Does H.264 REALLY come apart in post?

superamazing

superamazing

All across the internet, I've heard that H.264 is not a resilient codec, and "comes apart in post." However, I have doubts about that.

I acknowledge that H.264 is a pain to edit, because it's slow. The intraframe compression means your computer has to look around for the relevant information.

But the information is still there. For this reason, I simply do not understand how color grading or some similar process would cause the image to "come apart."

Are there any examples of this? I want to see a test, where some H.264 footage is put through a grueling regime of color grading and effects, compared to that same footage converted to an intermediate codec and put through the same exact process. I suspect the output would look exactly the same.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Another thing is that some editors allow you to only encode the parts of the clips that have been changed/altered and the rest is not re-encoded when saved into the final file.

So if you have 5 clips and piece them together, it could just re-encode a few short pieces where they join together.

This is good since if you decode and then re-encode it can mean some loss in the quality of the video. Also it saves time since the editor only needs to encode a small percentage of the actual video, as it simply copies the stream from the input files to the output for most the video.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brianluce said:
Yeah, how about that? Can you deliver something to YT that's in their native format? That they won't tire iron?
Click to expand...

Hey, man. No need to be snarky. If you have an issue with me, feel free to message me and hopefully we can work it out.

When I stated that YouTube prefers it, I was going by Adobe's widescreen HD preset for YouTube - which I don't believe was a decision that was made arbitrarily, especially since FLV is currently being developed and pimped by Adobe. How about that?

Peace.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
rayw said:
This is why I'm wondering if the compressed file can be uncompressed as a larger AVI format, monkey with... I mean edited, then re-compressed back into H.264/MP4 or other.

I don't know how to designate the 8 vs 10bit output for delivery, but I'll figure out something.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the process most people use - capture as h.264, convert to prores, cineform, etc - monkey about - then back to h.264 for the final delivery.

In most cases the 8 vs 10bit will be dictated by the format you edit with, so by converting to a 10bit format your NLE will work in the higher bit rate. You'll always end up delivering in 8 bit, but the goal is to eliminate multiple re-encoding passes through 8 bit space during things like color correction.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ItDonnedOnMe said:
1 - That's exactly the process most people use - capture as h.264, convert to prores, cineform, etc - monkey about - then back to h.264 for the final delivery.

2 - In most cases the 8 vs 10bit will be dictated by the format you edit with, so by converting to a 10bit format your NLE will work in the higher bit rate. You'll always end up delivering in 8 bit, but the goal is to eliminate multiple re-encoding passes through 8 bit space during things like color correction.
Click to expand...
1 - Cool. Thank you for confirming this part of the process.
Could I go onto suppose that it's outright ill advised to edit in H.264? Edit in anything, just not in H.264?

2 - 8 bit delivery is unavoidable? And color correction is only a 8 bit process? Can't designate 10 vs 8?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
No, in most decent post software you can do everything in 10 bit or higher precision - editing, color correction, vfx, graphics/titles, etc. I wouldn't say 'edit in anything, just not h.264' because there are a lot of codecs out there that don't hold up well to multiple generations - HDV for instance. So edit in a format that is designed to hold up well through multiple generations in post - Cineform, ProRes, DNxHD, etc.

For delivery I believe 8 bit is unavoidable - there just aren't many 10 bit codecs designed for consumer use, and without that it's not likely your general audience would be able to watch. But the final output to 8 bit isn't such a big deal - what you are really trying to avoid in post is multiple generations of manipulation in an 8 bit space.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
CamVader said:
Hey, man. No need to be snarky. If you have an issue with me, feel free to message me and hopefully we can work it out.

When I stated that YouTube prefers it, I was going by Adobe's widescreen HD preset for YouTube - which I don't believe was a decision that was made arbitrarily, especially since FLV is currently being developed and pimped by Adobe. How about that?

Peace.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be snarky, I apologize if it came across that way, I actually like the tire iron analogy.

I'm just wondering if there's any format you can hand YT that they won't touch because it's already the way they like it.

I always play a guessing game with YT and Vimeo, mainly because I'm too lazy to read their upload recommendations.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brianluce said:
I'm not trying to be snarky, I apologize if it came across that way, I actually like the tire iron analogy.

I'm just wondering if there's any format you can hand YT that they won't touch because it's already the way they like it.

I always play a guessing game with YT and Vimeo, mainly because I'm too lazy to read their upload recommendations.
Click to expand...

It looks like that guy had a hair across his ass that day. :blush:

My main complaint isn't really picture anymore, it's sync.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
superamazing said:
Yes! I looked this up yesterday. Do you know if they mess with the video at all if you upload it in this format?
Click to expand...

They mess with everything. :)

Seriously, it works fine. YouTube and Vimeo like smaller file sizes because it ties up their system less. I don't bother with any other codec for them because it's a preset in Premiere and it's just easier. Just FYI, H.264 is also the BluRay preset, but with different settings.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
superamazing said:
Yes! I looked this up yesterday. Do you know if they mess with the video at all if you upload it in this format?
Click to expand...

If you follow the specs from their site, you'll see that when it is "encoding", it takes a substantially smaller amount of time because they aren't doing as much to your video. As opposed to when you add a higher bit rate or do other similar such things, the processing takes longer to encode as you upload.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top