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dialogue Do you think that sometimes, having dialogue is a good thing, in this case?

H

harmonica44

I've been told by some beta-readers that sometimes the characters talk about things that are not relevant to the plot. But lots of movies do that, and they do it because it develops the characters more.

In Pulp Fiction for example, Jules and Vince have a lot of conversation in the car ride, in their opening scene, before they go kill those men they were assigned to.

But if that scene in the movie were cut, and it just started out with them going for the assassination, would have been better. For example, the foot massage philosophical debate, doesn't have anything to do with the actual plot at hand, but it helps develop the philosophical beliefs, of the characters and what they believe in.

I just think that little conversations like that, can really add to characters, even though it's not part of the plot at hand. Does it have to be though? What if it's an expression of character theme?

For example, in the script I gave to beta-readers, the MC meets a girl in the bar and seduces her. They develop a relationship and the relationship plays a part in the story.

I was told by a couple of readers that I don't need to show the seduction dialogue. I should just have to two characters give each other looks, and then skip ahead and that's all you need.

But doesn't that feel cheap in a way? I mean to use Pulp Fiction again, Vince took his boss's girl out and they showed all of it. Not that I am showing a lot, but I feel I should show something in dialogue, rather than just skipping ahead.

What do you think, about things like that?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well why not cut it? It's just going through the motions since the villain doesn't talk.
Click to expand...

Have you seen "The Town"? There are a couple great interrogation scenes in that film in which the suspect doesn't give up any information. The scenes do much more than merely "go through the motions" though - they illustrate that the suspects are intelligent about keeping their mouths shut while at the same time allowing the audience to see the tactics the officials use to attempt to advance their case.
 
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Okay thanks for the input people. The way I wrote the interrogation scene is that you see a glimpse of the suspect not talking as the interrogator narrates how it didn't do any good, cause he is speaking to other officers and the glimpse of the interrogation is shown in flashback, bust just a glimpse.

I could show the scene play out more, it's just I don't want to go through the motions, but if it's important to show him not talking more, than I could. The Town is a different example than mine though. I knew someone was going to bring it up :).

It's hard to put into words but the town was a different situation with different circumstances that warranted the scene to be shown. I don't think that mine is a particular situation that warrants it, but it's hard to put the difference into words. In The Town for one thing, they were arrested by surprise and there was some tension, where as in mine, the arrest was already foreseen. The villain already knew that he had to go in for a 24 hour arrest, with the cops hoping to get something, so he already knows if he doesn't talk, he will be released, where as in The Town, it was surprise circumstances.
 
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Et voilà, as always you come up with the context AFTER several people tried to help you based on incomplete information.
As mentioned before:
post the scene with the previous and next scene plus a context if you want any advice to make any sense. This has been brought up multiple times in the past years, so it is about time you learn from it.
 
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Okay here is a new rough draft of the actual scene where the guy and woman meet. Sorry for the delay:

EXT. BAR -- DAY -- MONTHS EARLIER (FLASHBACK)

Margot walks out of the place with her FEMALE FRIEND (30s), and she sees Guy, standing outside. He tries to light a large cigar, but the lighter won't work. Margo stops walking, and grabs her friend, gently by the arm.

MARGOT
Hey, that guy is cute. Check him out.

FRIEND
Well go get him, tiger.

MARGOT
Yeah, right.

FRIEND
Why not? Just go talk to him.

MARGOT
And say what?

Guy looks up at her, and she turns away.

FRIEND
You see? You're going in... Just put your ovaries where your mouth is and go for it!

The friend pushes Margo, lightly -- Margo walks past him -- She stops, takes a deep breath, and walks over towards him looking shy, but trying to act confident.

He sees her and she comes over and he stands up off the bench. She comes up to him and snatches his cigar out of his mouth, to him being surprised --

MARGOT
Got a light?

He is intrigued...

GUY
Yeah, sure.

He lights it for her as she tries to smoke it but inhales it and coughs... He sees that she is inhaling, and is amused.

MARGOT
(coughing)
Not bad.

She takes another inhale and coughs again.

GUY
(smirks and shakes his head)
It's usually not until after a woman has experienced me, that she takes up smoking. But I'm not surprised.

MARGOT
(in disbelief)
Oh really?

Guy nods. She steps closer and tries to stare him down --

MARGOT
Wanna bet?

After that, the plot cuts ahead to later. Now technically a script can make sense without it, but I wanted to establish how the characters met and give their relationship some color since the love story gets serious and ends in tragedy later.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Okay here is a new rough draft of the actual scene where the guy and woman meet. Sorry for the delay:

EXT. BAR -- DAY -- MONTHS EARLIER (FLASHBACK)

Margot walks out of the place with her FEMALE FRIEND (30s), and she sees Guy, standing outside. He tries to light a large cigar, but the lighter won't work. Margo stops walking, and grabs her friend, gently by the arm.

...
He sees her and she comes over and he stands up off the bench. She comes up to him and snatches his cigar out of his mouth, to him being surprised --
...
He lights it for her as she tries to smoke it but inhales it and coughs... He sees that she is inhaling, and is amused.
...

After that, the plot cuts ahead to later. Now technically a script can make sense without it, but I wanted to establish how the characters met and give their relationship some color since the love story gets serious and ends in tragedy later.
Click to expand...
Pay attention to contradictions. So he's standing outside but somehow is now stands up from a bench? His lighter won't work but now he can light it for her? The dialogue also feels forced and on-the-nose. Just keep it simple.
Code: 
EXT. BAR - DAY (FLASHBACK)

Margo is a bit tipsy standing by her friend.  She grasps her 
friend's arm and gestures towards

Guy seated at a bench.  He glances over then back at his drink.  
He pulls out a cigar and lights it.

Her friend pushes Margo towards him.  She stops, glances back,  
takes a deep breath, and walks over towards him shy but trying 
to act confident.

He rises from the bench and  turns  as

she snatches his cigar out of his mouth to his surprise.

                             MARGOT
              I was wondering if it's a good as it looks.

He is intrigued.

She tries to smoke it but inhales it and coughs. He tries to hide
his amusement.

                             MARGOT
              Not bad.

She takes another inhale and coughs again.

                             GUY
              It's a rather thick, long lasting flavor that's 
              too rich for most women's palates.

                             MARGOT
              Oh really?  Well, my palate can take anything
              you can throw at it.  Wanna bet?

He smiles then shakes his head.

                             GUY
              I think you've had a bit much, you
              should go with your friend.

He takes the cigar back and clenches it in his mouth.

They glance back and her friend is gone.

                             MARGOT
              Looks like she left without me.  Guess
              you'll need to give me a ride.

She stares at him.  A beat.  He smirks and gestures her to 
the door.
 
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Sorry I rewrote the scene and originally there was a bench there. I will go over it and revise it. Thank you. I was told that the dialogue is forced as well, by a couple of others. Is their anything I can do about that specifically? I see you rewrote it, but when you talk about what a woman's palate is and all that, the dialogue is longer, and less simple, and therefore, wouldn't that come off as more on the nose? How is saying that a woman not being able to handle that kind of palate, less on the nose compared to a saying that a man can make a woman start smoking with the right magic?

I just don't see the difference as to what constitutes as a woman's taste palate being less on the nose, compared to a woman smoking after a good experience with a man. How is one more on the nose exactly?

I know what you mean though about how his lighter won't work, then he can light it for her. Perhaps I can write it so that she takes it away, before he can light it at all.
 
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