Director's approach

[Tony Ivon]

Hey there!
After watching some videos about directors working with thier actors I considered that director is there to direct the atmosphere of the scene, but after working with unprofessional actors It seemed like I needed to give them advices on each phrase.
So, the question is: What is the right approach of the director to the professional and unprofessional actors?

 

[trueindie]

Hey there!
After watching some videos about directors working with thier actors I considered that director is there to direct the atmosphere of the scene, but after working with unprofessional actors It seemed like I needed to give them advices on each phrase.
So, the question is: What is the right approach of the director to the professional and unprofessional actors?

Two ways to solve this problem:
1. You audition the actors, so that you can tell if they prepared for the audition at all (you'd be surprised how many actors show up at auditions unprepared).
2. Go to film group meetings. Meet actors. Make friends with actors. You can't use all your actor friends, as you will discover, but some you'll be able to.

But the most important thing is to understand your place in the game. You and I are nobodies. You can't behave like the directors you watch on BTS videos. So just because I call myself "director" tomorrow, doesn't mean everybody is going to listen to me, since most of the people are unpaid, and I'm still a nobody. You also have to work yourself up to a position where when you tell your actors something, they want to listen to you. But it's easier, when your actors are prepped, and know the script.

 

[Sweetie]

What is the right approach of the director to the unprofessional actors?

Avoid them.

What is the right approach of the director to the professional actors?

Collaborate with them. Leverage their experience, their knowledge and abilities. Help them do their job. Help them do their part as to help you accomplish your vision.

Above all. Do your job. You have to do your job to let everyone else do their job.

 

[Tony Ivon]

Well, thanks, it makes a great deal of sense now. Really. Thank you

 

[FilmmakerJ]

Avoid them.

Collaborate with them. Leverage their experience, their knowledge and abilities. Help them do their job. Help them do their part as to help you accomplish your vision.

Above all. Do your job. You have to do your job to let everyone else do their job.

It might make things clearer if we were to say "non-professional" vs "unprofessional." Because non-professional simply means that they weren't formally trained. But that doesn't mean they can't behave in a "professional" manner.

"Unprofessional" on the other hand, gives me the feeling that the actor in question has no real understanding of what an actor does, they aren't capable of portraying a character whose emotional state is different than their own, and they don't treat the job with respect and understanding towards their director.

So in that sense, I can't agree with you that one should completely avoid "non-professional" actors, because many can be quite surprising and impressive depending on their level of experience.

Plenty of people who try to become actors, who think they are actors, and who go out to auditions to try out for parts, are not going to impress you. And the ones who might impress at first could still have many communication issues later. So it is first of all very important that you try to get a good idea of their level of understanding of the craft, and especially of their part, before you bring them on a project.

But I've worked with roughly six "non-professional" actors on previous works, and they were all fantastic for the needs of my films. However, the particular thing with all of them was that they were all well versed in improvisation, acting on stage, and some even had a bit of experience with voice over. So they all understood how to portray a role, and how to put character into it. They weren't perfect, but they certainly understand my direction, and most of the time they brought their characters where I needed them to be. They were very fun, energetic, and they did their job respectably.

I've also seen quite a few directors, I believe Milos Forman was one of them, who prefer to work with non-professional actors because they can sometimes give more honesty to a part than a professional actor, who may instead over-do a part and accentuate their dialogue in the wrong way, to the point where they become unconvincing.

Some films have even been created entirely with non-professional local people who were simply very receptive and naturally understanding to taking artistic direction.

So at the end of the day, I would be cautious about hiring non-professionals, and be sure you understand their level of skill or understanding before you bring them on. Otherwise you very well could end up with an actor who is both unconvincing and hard to work with.

 

[trueindie]

I've also seen quite a few directors, I believe Milos Forman was one of them, who prefer to work with non-professional actors because they can sometimes give more honesty to a part than a professional actor, who may instead over-do a part and accentuate their dialogue in the wrong way, to the point where they become unconvincing.

Yeah. Milos Forman's technique is "no acting." He's brilliant.

 

[Sweetie]

You're right, it does come down to your definition.

I assumed it was more of a non-actor, as in "grab a friend who cannot act to save their life" and how do I direct them. My answer is once again, you don't, much in the same way you don't train your pet dog to operate the camera. The OP's formulating his directing style from BTS videos so I suspect it's a rather safe bet.

In reality there is a wide range in between.

You also have a great point. There are directors who do work with non-actors. I'm simply not a good enough director to be able to draw a performance from a non-acting member of the general public.

Also remember, this is just my point of view. It won't fit everyone's style/skillset. Directing isn't technical. It's creative. There are different approaches, ideas, perspectives, techniques, skills and applications.

 

[FilmmakerJ]

You're right, it does come down to your definition.

I assumed it was more of a non-actor, as in "grab a friend who cannot act to save their life" and how do I direct them. My answer is once again, you don't, much in the same way you don't train your pet dog to operate the camera. The OP's formulating his directing style from BTS videos so I suspect it's a rather safe bet.

In reality there is a wide range in between.

You also have a great point. There are directors who do work with non-actors. I'm simply not a good enough director to be able to draw a performance from a non-acting member of the general public.

Also remember, this is just my point of view. It won't fit everyone's style/skillset. Directing isn't technical. It's creative. There are different approaches, ideas, perspectives, techniques, skills and applications.

Absolutely.
And I understand why you had said that earlier. I just wasn't sure how definite you were on that statement.

Because you're right, trying to direct a non-professional actor, especially one that has not had much experience, or indeed any experience, can be one of the toughest jobs a director can have if put in that situation. At that point you have to be a very good "people person" and an extremely good communicator in order to get what you need from them in their performance. A little psychology can also go a long way here.

 

[Tony Ivon]

So, I am to pull the maximum actors' potential, aren't I? But is it OK, if I ask them to play in a different manner in one particular scene despite their insistence on another way of perfomance (when it seems to me not corresponding to the atmosphere of the scene)?

 

[directorik]

So, I am to pull the maximum actors' potential, aren't I? But is it OK, if I ask them to play in a different manner in one particular scene despite their insistence on another way of perfomance (when it seems to me not corresponding to the atmosphere of the scene)?

Yes. You are to pull the maximum actors' potential - that is your
job. It is OK if you ask them to play in a different manner in one
particular scene. If they insist on doing it their way then you know
those are not the actors you should work with. YOU are the director.
The actors should understand that you have the final say in the
creation of your movie.

It's important to recognize they the director is NOT a dictator but
with non-profesionals actors the director will many rimes find themselves
insisting on specific acting choices. Learn and grow. Learn how to spot
non professional actors who will not follow your direction. It takes time.

 

[trueindie]

So, I am to pull the maximum actors' potential, aren't I? But is it OK, if I ask them to play in a different manner in one particular scene despite their insistence on another way of perfomance (when it seems to me not corresponding to the atmosphere of the scene)?

Okay, so let's break it down.

1. The premise is this: Although the actor is living in the scene, it's not his or her scene. it's your scene. And that is the reason, you're insisting that they play it your way. Because you see the scene in a certain mood or whatever. So you're right on your insistence.

2. If the actor doesn't accept your vision, then you must be able to discuss it and tell them why you see it the way you do. If the actor is really insisting that it has to be some other way, then you listen to the actor, and you may change your opinion (probably a rare occurrence). But if you feel that you are correct, you should be able to explain why? "You can't say this is it. You must do it this way and that's that." In case of time crunches you may insist your way or the highway, with other things, such as light or set design or whatever. But with the actors, you have to know how to bring them to your way of seeing things. You can't just insist, when it comes to actors. You have to explain. They have to understand what it is you want, why you want it, etc., or they'll be unable to display the behavior you are really looking for.

cheers

 

[FilmmakerJ]

So, I am to pull the maximum actors' potential, aren't I? But is it OK, if I ask them to play in a different manner in one particular scene despite their insistence on another way of perfomance (when it seems to me not corresponding to the atmosphere of the scene)?

I think you're exhibiting a concern that many if not most young filmmakers have: how much should I direct, and how much should I let actors act?

Because it can easily be intimidating, especially when you're working with actors who you think are amazing or who might actually be famous in one way or another. And you think to yourself, "am I in a position to tell this person what to do," "am I allowed to tell them how to do something if they aren't getting it right," "should I tell them this that and the other thing to show them where I am going with this scene or this character," or even "am I worthy to direct this individual?"

But in answer to all of these, as ~Tony Ivan had said, Yes, you are indeed in a position to tell this person what to do. But initially you should be cordial and polite about it because a Director should try to be understanding, cooperative, and even accommodating in some circumstances, in order that the actors, and even the rest of the team, don't take too much control away.

Collaboration is one of the back-bones of the business and is super important. I could not have shot my last film without a multitude of talented people. But if someone isn't gelling with the production and working towards getting it where it's supposed to be be as far as genre, mood, style, or intention, then they might not be the best person to be working with.

So you should be honest, give the actors room to work, and learn to work with them. Don't think of them as puppets or robots or something like that, because that can be the other extreme.

In the end, if an actor isn't giving you what you need then just tell them, and see how you might be able to work towards a different and more suitable performance. However, if they are becoming difficult to work with, and they aren't giving you and the rest of your crew what you know that you need, then it's your job to make the call to possibly recast their part. Just be sure that your Producer agrees with that decision.

And I agree with ~Trueindie as well, that once in a great while, an actor's gut feeling may be more fitting to the role and the scene than your original intention. Most notably this happened on the set of The Empire Strikes Back, when Harrison Ford said "I know" instead of "I love you too," just before he was frozen in carbonite. But I think this situation will come up more likely in the sequel to a previous work, where your actor's have really come to understand their characters on a deeper and more personal level. So their instincts regarding that character might be more intuitive than your own understanding, even though you may be the director and even the writer.

 

[Sweetie]

can be one of the toughest jobs a director can have if put in that situation

The issue I have is you're changing your job from being a director to being an actor teacher. Personally, I'm a horrible teacher so I'll never be able to do it justice and on top of that, it'll distract me from my duties.

I am to pull the maximum actors' potential, aren't I?

Yes and no. Your job is to get the best performance for the film. Your job is not to get the best performance for the actor. It's a minor distinction, but still a distinction.

But is it OK, if I ask them to play in a different manner in one particular scene despite their insistence on another way of perfomance

Of course.

If you have an actor who insists on performing their character outside your vision, you may have cast the wrong actor. There needs to be a trust between the actor and the director. The director needs to trust the actor will perform what is needed. The actor needs to trust that the director will take care of the actor.

I do suggest that you listen to them. What they're suggesting may be right. It also may not fit into your vision.

But if you feel that you are correct, you should be able to explain why? "You can't say this is it. You must do it this way and that's that." In case of time crunches you may insist your way or the highway, with other things, such as light or set design or whatever. But with the actors, you have to know how to bring them to your way of seeing things. You can't just insist, when it comes to actors. You have to explain. They have to understand what it is you want, why you want it, etc., or they'll be unable to display the behavior you are really looking for.

This is an example where differing styles can come into play. I prefer a building trust method. If they trust that you've got their back, this will go along much smoother. Most actors don't understand every nuance when it comes to writing, directing, blocking, editing and the multitudes of other facets that you'll need to oversee. There comes a point where your explanation may simply be too much for the actor to understand and they may just give in and accept your way. It may work but it's not exactly the best position to be in.

Sometimes the actors just want to know you'll listen to and consider their ideas.

That's just me. You really need to develop your own style that works for you in the productions you'll get involved with.

Collaboration is one of the back-bones of the business and is super important.

This is key. I find, the better you are as a director, the more you'll allow others to assume more control. That's not to say they can usurp your vision, exactly the opposite.

 

[Tony Ivon]

. It seems that my toughest quiestion about directing is clarified now, but I can guess that the new ones will appear shortly...
Anyway, thank you very much for all of your explanations and advices.