I think the lack of film school or proper experience in film making on other people's production is the issue with me... I never went to film school, I never had any contact with camera or editing before. I did drama, acting is the main focus for me... Guess that's why I don't always get what is needed... I started my own films in 2011, I own all the equipment so all I can do is film and practise... And make mistakes and fail and learn on it.
Dilemma
- Thread starter LDS
- Start date
Consider looking for a business partner with the experience to make your films better.
Ok my two cents, I've watched most of both episodes previously and while it's not something I would personally continue Watching (not my tastes) the two trailers you've got for it really don't give it justice. I'm not going to say they're amazing episodes, but the trailer isn't really giving the series the best image of it.
Also I agree on the shoot everything first then release thing. Maybe a pilot separately but everything else should be shot at a similar time for scheduling purposes. Also I don't think 600 is too bad for an unknown we series which (as statd above) kinda crappy marketing (from what I've seen)
Also I agree on the shoot everything first then release thing. Maybe a pilot separately but everything else should be shot at a similar time for scheduling purposes. Also I don't think 600 is too bad for an unknown we series which (as statd above) kinda crappy marketing (from what I've seen)
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Marketing isn't paying someone to watch, although it may involve paying someone.
It's everything you do to make people aware of your series, and hopefully interested enough to watch it.
A general rule of thumb in marketing is you're likely to get a 1-3% response rate. So if you want 1000 views, you need to get your video in front of 30-100,000 people. So marketing is whatever you need to do to get there.
The free methods are sharing it on social media sites like facebook, twitter, etc, or forums like this one. How many places like this have you shared your series?
You can also look for blogs or sites that write about films or videos similar to yours, and reach out to them to see if they're interested in reviewing your project, or doing an interview with you about it, or having you write a guest blog about something related to your series.
You may have to get creative with this - i.e. it looks like you're using distinctive hats as a key element of the style of your series, there may be blogs that focus on hats that would be interested in your project if you can tell a good story about why you chose those particular hats. In fact this is the kind of thing you should be thinking about before you shoot - there are tons of crazy deep enthusiast sites around all kinds of obscure things. Make the right pencil a key plot point of an episode or character trait and you may be able to tap into a world of pencil enthusiasts that you probably never even knew existed.
The cheap methods are online advertising - youtube promoted videos, facebook promoted posts, google adwords, etc. With all of these you can start with a fairly small budget ($10 or so) and reach beyond your immediate social networks. If your primary goal is views I'd say start with youtube promoted videos, as there you are specifically paying only when people watch your video.
After that it starts getting more expensive. Buying ads on blogs or forums can be a good option - click on the 'advertise with us' link at the bottom of this page and you'll see you can spend $100-1500/month to get an ad on indietalk. I'd suggest looking for forums/sites that are specifically focused on interests related to the content/genre of your series.
Beyond that you start getting into much higher budgets - magazine & television advertising. There are ways to do this affordably - for instance it's often possible to get regional cable advertising fairly cheaply per commercial slot, although you'll probably need to buy a block of slots which will total up to a few thousand dollars. In any case, I wouldn't worry about stuff at this level until you've already exhausted all the other cheaper options.
Of course once you get someone to watch then it's all down to your material - obviously with a series you want people to continue watching, so the marketing part is just about getting them in the door. I've watched your first couple of episodes, and while I think there's some potential there I also think it needs a lot of refinement to really keep an audience engaged and wanting more. A lot of the jokes could be funnier, but they fall flat due to the delivery or timing. The second episode is definitely better than the first - so I think that's an argument for continuing with the series. If you can continue to refine and improve it with each episode then I'm guessing it could start to get pretty good at some point, maybe 8-10 episodes in - but it's going to take a sustained effort to keep the series up and work at getting steadily better.
I'd also disable the pre-roll ads - you're not popular enough to make much money with them yet, and you risk turning off viewers who don't want to sit through an ad to see if your video is worth watching. Turn them back on once you've got a regular audience who knows it's worth the wait and doesn't mind watching the ad if it supports making the series.
Well sometimes in filmmaking you lose a lot of money just to try people to notice you .
And if you want to get money out of everything then you're not going to get far.
If you want people to watch your videos ,especially web series sometimes you have to pay some extra cash , unless it is really really good ( even then tho ) and as you can see a lot of people are not in love with your series.
sometimes I feel like people on here think they know me very well... money is the last thing I want from films TRUST ME... but I can NOT spend money that i do NOT have
I make music videos for unsigned artists for FREE
I make acting show reels for actors for FREE
I take pictures for actors and models for FREE
I help other film-friends on their project using MY own equipment for FREE
And if I ever get paid £150 is the max for entire project which I film, direct and edit.
easier said or written than done
You seem to have a lot of excuses why you can't take any of the good advice in this thread and move forward with more success. To me that says you're not really that into it, and it's probably just time to cut this series short and start looking for something you'll be more passionate about and feel it's worth putting the effort into.
everything I say can be turned around... same I can think your
is just your way of getting money from me and to give it to indietalk ... I dont know you, maybe your work for indietalk and you just want people to give you money, or you have some profit from it or.... anything else... I don't know... what I am trying to say, I do not have a lot of excuses mr! What I said is the reality not excuses.
I am a guy with no money and please trust me IT IS difficult to find "business" partner. It IS difficult to film in London with no money, Brits are ALL about money, the only actors you can find in London who will work for free are actors with no experience, the only film makers you can find who can help with series are guys who have no idea how to use camera or sound or even hold boom pole and still it is difficult to find them, it is difficult to find good editor without paying... UK is waaaaaay different than the US (never been but from what I see there is a lots more collaborations in the US than in the UK)...
it IS difficult to make something with no professional experience - I do not give excuses... I life in reality... I live in the UK... I know I have a long, long way to be great at it... I am ONE person, I write, I act, I film, I direct, I edit, and I do the SFX, and manage a guy with a sound who has never hold a boom pole before, and I also set the lights, I am not a genius but I have to do it all by myself and just ask friends with no experience to help me, otherwise... I wouldn't done even one film!
Again... it's no excuses... Trust me... If I had a chance of a guy with sound, a writer who can write, script supervisor, set assistant, graffer who would work for FREE... Believe me, I would say YES, and yes then it could improve...
I tried to look for experienced people... Found... 0... Well just in the last episode Ifound a guy with camera skills, but that's it... Anybody else... "How much do you pay"... Well... take that as an excuse
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http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?p=316209#post316209
For a so-called "grass roots" campaign you need to become an active member of forums that share the same interests as the subjects of your projects.
Be forewarned: this is going to suck up just as much time as actually producing your projects.
Seriously, MAKING the shorts or films is only HALF of the plan to successfully produce a film and probably the easier half, the other being the marketing and promotion.
For a so-called "grass roots" campaign you need to become an active member of forums that share the same interests as the subjects of your projects.
Be forewarned: this is going to suck up just as much time as actually producing your projects.
Seriously, MAKING the shorts or films is only HALF of the plan to successfully produce a film and probably the easier half, the other being the marketing and promotion.
No affiliation with indietalk, just like hanging out here. And if you read the next sentence in my post you'll see I actually suggest finding other forums, blogs etc - indietalk was just a convenient example for the kind of price range you could expect, I don't actually think you should be advertising here (wrong target audience).
That aside, the first half of my post was all suggestions for free ways to do marketing - things that just take time and effort - but you seem to have skipped over those to focus on spending money, which you clearly don't want to do. Again, you seem intent on focusing on the things you can't do rather than the things you can. If you don't have the money to spend then you'll have to put in the time and effort to do it the free way. That's fine - it's probably the best course of action at this point anyway, even if you had the money to advertise.
Of course it's difficult. What did you expect? If it was easy, everybody would do it... well, more so than they are now, at least. It's difficult for everyone around here, UK or US.
I don't disagree that what you've described is reality, but if you're using that reality as a way to justify not doing the things you could be doing, then it's also a bunch of excuses. There are things you can change, and things you can't - forget about the things you can't change, and put all your effort into the things you can.
You've put in a bunch of work on these first two episodes, the second is better than the first, you could put in the work to keep on going with it getting better each time and maybe end up with something really good. On top of that there are a bunch of free marketing things you could be doing to build the audience as you go with it - they just require you to put in the time. It's just time, and effort, and fighting for the inches that are all around you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b7bgtu2O4E
Or, you can look at all the difficulties you face and decide the give up because of them. Your choice.
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Filmmaking isn't easy. Filmmaking isn't a walk through the park. Filmmaking can be one of the funnest things to do, but it can also be one of the most stressful and painful things that you will ever do.
Whining isn't going to get you anywhere. Making excuses isn't going to get you anywhere.
Taking everyone's advice, and working as hard as you possibly can will get you somewhere.
Whining isn't going to get you anywhere. Making excuses isn't going to get you anywhere.
Taking everyone's advice, and working as hard as you possibly can will get you somewhere.
Why not continue making the episodes you have written but only upload them to YouTube/Vimeo as private with no ads? That way, you can continue to improve and send certain people the links so that you can get meaningful feedback. Once you, and your critics, believe that you have a tight, watchable, product, go back and reshoot the earlier episodes to bring them up to your new standard of excellence. THEN promote the living hell out of the show and begin uploading new content to the publicly viewable area of YT/V on a regular schedule. Keep the ads turned off for the first episode or two and see how many views you get. If, after two episodes, you are getting lots of views and positive feedback, then you monetize the series. You can even go back and monetize the first two episodes. Hopefully by the end of the first season, you will have enough followers and fans to financially support the second season at a higher production level.
Slightly off the topic of what to do with your web series, but if you want to be an actor, why not put all your effort into that. Head to as many auditions as possible, join a drama group or two, act in everything you can… you say you can’t find filmmakers to work with, but I bet there are hundreds of filmmakers in London, thinking that there aren’t any actors to work with.
Point being, I don’t think anyone wanting to hire “professional” actor would look at your CV and think that your having starred in an amateur, no-budget web-series, written by, directed by and starring YOU is a really good selling point. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I don’t think it boosts your CV in the way that you are hoping it will.
Point being, I don’t think anyone wanting to hire “professional” actor would look at your CV and think that your having starred in an amateur, no-budget web-series, written by, directed by and starring YOU is a really good selling point. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but I don’t think it boosts your CV in the way that you are hoping it will.
LOL... Funny you're from England you should know why... Of course it will again come across as "excuse" but I am Polish actor in London... The only thing I can do in front of camera in the UK is beng an Extra which I am not interested in.
UK film industry is extremely closed especially for foreigners... Especially for Poles... Brits have enough of us here and please don't tell me I'm wrong I spoke with casting directors of James Bond films who has to travel around the world to find Bond Girls because UK acting agents don't accept foreign actors.
There are few films (Anna Karenina for example) where they hire British actors to play Russians because it is a british production, or tv shows ("The Spa" on SkyLiving that I worked on) I had one line but I was asked to help a British actor who actually played Polish with his pronunciation of Polish words.
That's way in 2011 I got pissed off and bought all the equipment I have now and started to make my own projects.
I have been participating these indie films over 15 years and before the youtube it used to much more easier. Why? Because you could deliver those films in VHS copy around your own town and be "famous" that way.
Nowdays with the saturation of the market you really cannot have any weaknesses in your projects, everything has to be 100% and if you do not succeed with that, well then someone else will.
Previously you could make a kunfu film with your friends and people would see that in VHS and like it, even if it would be awful film. Now you have some guy that has practiced kunfu last 15 years 8 hours per day and they decide to make a kunfu film. How can you compete with that one?
I have been doing a feature film all summer and I really do not do the film for you (the audience), of course it is nice to get feedback but I mainly do the film to myself, so I can be proud of film I have created and secondly that actors can be proud of the film and use it for marketing purposes.
LDS, I do like your web show but if you do not get the fun out of it or it is too much work to be done, then why not do something else?
One thing I have realized also is that if you do not get a good crew and you have to spend your own money to get the film done, then why bother. I have a lot of actors nowdays that work for free and composers and so on, but I always try to work 100%.
But the funny thing is that even without any budget I still cannot accept people to my film that cannot act.
This is for me the main problem nowdays, if you want to start in this "business" you have to be a pro already and you have to have a pro team as well, do you have the budget or not. If you are pro and work with amateurs, then they are stealing your time, if you are an amateur and your crew is pro, then you will be stealing their time.
Nowdays with the saturation of the market you really cannot have any weaknesses in your projects, everything has to be 100% and if you do not succeed with that, well then someone else will.
Previously you could make a kunfu film with your friends and people would see that in VHS and like it, even if it would be awful film. Now you have some guy that has practiced kunfu last 15 years 8 hours per day and they decide to make a kunfu film. How can you compete with that one?
I have been doing a feature film all summer and I really do not do the film for you (the audience), of course it is nice to get feedback but I mainly do the film to myself, so I can be proud of film I have created and secondly that actors can be proud of the film and use it for marketing purposes.
LDS, I do like your web show but if you do not get the fun out of it or it is too much work to be done, then why not do something else?
One thing I have realized also is that if you do not get a good crew and you have to spend your own money to get the film done, then why bother. I have a lot of actors nowdays that work for free and composers and so on, but I always try to work 100%.
But the funny thing is that even without any budget I still cannot accept people to my film that cannot act.
This is for me the main problem nowdays, if you want to start in this "business" you have to be a pro already and you have to have a pro team as well, do you have the budget or not. If you are pro and work with amateurs, then they are stealing your time, if you are an amateur and your crew is pro, then you will be stealing their time.
agree with you 100%
But London is a bitch, people won't do anything for free... even in Bournemouth or Eastbourne or Liverpool, cities 2-4 hours away from London, people are more likely to help and get involved and then I could let myself to pick the best actors from the crowd... For now I have to use what I've got. Actors in London are divas and film makers in London think they're too good to help for free. (not saying all of them but 95% of them)
Not sure exactly what you're referring to... But I wasn't aware that you were Polish. I can understand that there aren't as many avenues for you to get into acting in the UK, as the majority of lead roles (and those characters) will be English. Why somebody would cast a Brit as a Pole... I don't know. It's not what I'd do. But for the limited roles that may go to a Polish actor, there is going to be stiff competition. I would suggest that being an extra in Eastenders or Holby City would probably be a bigger boost to your CV than acting in your own web series. It would also offer great networking opportunities with actual pros. If it's an option, I'd go for it.