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Building streetlights in a forest

WalterB

WalterB

I've got a crazy idea for a very short short. (As I like to made very short shorts now and then :P )

For this I need full control on streetlights, so I figured I need to put about 8 streetlights in a dark forest with on and off switches at the control post. I was thinking to use 250W halogeen bulb for the streetlights and use daylight Kino Flos as 'moonlight' (both as backlight and as softened front light).
Plus some small daylight litepanels with softbox to fill shadows in the face during close ups.

(Yes, we're shooting at night: preferrably on C300 or RED Scarlet/Epic: depending on who's getting on board :P Backup camera: 5D MkII)

It will take some work and lots of wiring.
We will bring to 'silenced' generators, but since 60 dB isn't really quiet yet, when you're in a deserted area, I'm thinking to silence them further with insulation foam (without smoothing the intake and exhaust).
And we'll bring a smoke machine to add mist and 'drama'.

Has anyone tried this before?
If so: any things I should not forget?

Or is this just an insane plan?
 
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What's the scene involve? I assume the fact that it's in a forest means it's meant to look like it's in a forest - are you shooting along a path, or in the middle of thick tree cover?

What's your budget? I get the feeling 'street lights' might feel unrealistic - but it really depends on the scene. It could work perfectly fine.

I would probably go with some larger HMIs bounced or up high (condor? ;)) as the 'moonlight' source, and then have a bunch of kino flos that I play with for different effects, including filling (maybe different colour temps)

It really depends on the scene - there's a million ways to light a scene depending on budget and the fixtures available to you.
 
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WalterB said:
We will bring to 'silenced' generators, but since 60 dB isn't really quiet yet, when you're in a deserted area, I'm thinking to silence them further with insulation foam (without smoothing the intake and exhaust).

Or is this just an insane plan?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about insane but there are some loopholes/dangers with this part of your plan. Loophole first; generally the loudest part of an engine is it's exhaust and the second loudest is it's air intake (depending on the exact design of the exhaust and intake systems), the very parts you can't do anything about! Insulating foam isn't going to help much either, unless you get it very close to the engine, in which case it could affect the engine's ability to cool itself and could melt or catch fire!

The best solution is going to involve distance, mass and common sense. Get the genny as far away from the set as possible and get as much mass between the genny and the set as possible. On the common sense side; if there's any wind, make sure the genny is down-wind of the set and obviously not positioned anywhere near the plane of where a shotgun mic is likely to be pointed. Unless you can get the genny a long way away (with a fair bit of mass in-between), the chances are that you're going to pick up at least some genny noise in your production sound, which is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remove later. For this reason, it would be wise to schedule enough time on set to record all the dialogue a second time (as wild tracks), obviously with the genny switched off.

G
 
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Thanks!

The plan is indeed to keep the generator at a distance. With trees and bushes, that by that time will have more leaves again, between us. Downwind is a great suggestion. Didn't think about that before, although microphone direction and the shape of the surroundings also have some influence.
I wouldn't wrap it all in, but I was hoping to kill some sound with soft tissue relatively close to the source.

As far as HMI's are concerned: I plan to use what I can get access to and although not as perfect as your condor suggestion (that would be so cool!) Kino's are what I can use now.

To be more clear about the scene:
it's amongst a small road in a not really dense forest: the road is meant for cycling and walking during daytime (that's why there are no lights). The road it's self is 6 feet wide, but the 'road-area' is over 30 feet wide.
The scene involves cycling. (It's a Dutch production :P we are a cycling nation ;) )
In The Netherlands street lights come in many shapes, forms and sizes.

Budget is low: trying to keep it cheap and get some funding from a supllier of electric stuff like lights, wires and fixtures :P
It's a bit ambitious, but it should be possible :)
 
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WalterB said:
The plan is indeed to keep the generator at a distance. With trees and bushes, that by that time will have more leaves again, between us. Downwind is a great suggestion. Didn't think about that before, although microphone direction and the shape of the surroundings also have some influence.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are a lot of variables. How loud the genny is, which frequency ranges the sound energy is in, how far away it is, how thick the vegetation is between the genny and the set, other geological issues, etc. Filming at night also usually means less wind, less ambiance/"Room Tone" and that sound travels further.

It would be well worth you doing a test, take the genny, a shotgun mic and a recorder to the location (at night!), start the genny up (and provide it with an electrical load) and then record a few lines at different levels. Check the recordings at a quite high playback level when you get back home. If you can hear the genny at all, you're likely to have some serious problems when you come to edit your finished film and at that stage ADR could well be your only solution (if you haven't recorded dialogue wilds)!

G
 
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Yeah, I would probably go the LED route myself. Length of PVC with a small LED panel hanging off the end of it. Perhaps even gel the LED panel to make it a bit more sodium light colored.

Do they not have LED streetlights in the Netherlands yet? They're becoming more and more prevalent here in the states.

If you have to go with genny-powered, it might be worth looking into what the rental cost is for a silenced genny specifically intended for use on a film set. You're what, about an hour drive/45min train ride from Amsterdam, yeah? There are rental houses in Amsterdam that would probably have a silenced genny available for rent, might be worth your while to look into that at the very least.
 
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The issue with LEDs is it's quite difficult to get the sheer output, especially with any kind of colour accuracy, for any kind of decent price.

I'd rather bounce tungsten lights.

That said, it's hard to suggest too much without knowing what the scene's about. There's so many ways you could light it - but the scene might be warm and inviting, it might be someone riding away from police, riding in a 'forest race' or anything.

In terms of sound, what dialogue etc. is there? You don't necessarily need to spent the extra on a silenced generator, as long as you can place your generator in a spot where it's far enough away, and behind enough things that it can't be heard. Of course, you'll likely need a slightly more powerful generator to account for the line loss - again depending how far away you need to put it.
 
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There is hardly any dialogue.
Monologue is a better word, since it will be a phonecall while cycling home at night.
(Sounds like a bad moment to cycling through a foresty landscape ;) )
But I'd like to get some of the biking sounds on set as well; that will save time on the Foley part of post. And time is short after shooting. Postproduction should be finished in 4 days.

When traffic is smooth Amsterdam is indeed one hour away. And there are more rentals than in the Rotterdam area.

BTW, thanks for all the great input.
It's really nice to have some fresh views on it :)
 
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Deep cycle batteries and power inverters to power the bulbs. When you say 250 watt fluorescent lights, are you referring to the actual power draw of the bulb or the rated incandescent equivalent? If it is the equivalent, that is really only 55 watts per bulb. One 750 watt power inverter could run all 8 bulbs with juice to spare. If you run multiple deep cycle batteries, remember to wire them in parallel, not in series. Wiring parallel gives you twice the storage at the same 12V output. Series gives you the same storage with multiple voltage output (2 batteries would be 24V and 3 would be 36V etc.).

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Wire-Batteries-in-Series-or-in-Parallel/

ETA: A nice bonus of using the "silent generator" (batteries/inverters) is that it is low voltage wiring which is less dangerous. Despite the reduced danger, always take all required precautions when dealing with electricity.
 
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I'm referring to actual power draw. (The output needs to be higher, otherwise it will be very dim.)
All lights need to be switchable from 1 location (next to me as I'm the director telling the switcher when to switch).

I'm thinking to gel the non-street lights blue-ish to make it more like 'moonlight' and to seperate the warm streetlights and cool 'night light' more, while the white balance is set on daylight.
Anyone played with this before?
The last time I did this was in 2001 (on my first project ever) with 1 daylight bulb gelled full blue and a desk lamp with a warm tungsten bulb and it really created the night illusion, alhough not very realitic, due to no real knowledge about lighting.
 
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If you shoot with a White Balance of ~4300-4500K, you get your daylight-balanced lights going blue, and your tungsten lights orange, without going too extreme in either direction - and the added benefit of not losing any light output by needing to gel.

The best solution for your 'switch' depends on a number of factors - including if everything needs to be switched on at once, or if different lights are being switched on/off at different times. The best solution is probably a DMX controller, but that's also potentially the most expensive (though you can get DMX-solutions for relatively inexpensive rental), and you'd need someone with the expertise to wire/run it.
 
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Great advice: that's what I like about Indietalk: so much brainpower and experience :)
I didn't think of 'tricking' the white balance to keep all of the output.

(It doesn't help I'm in post for a promo animation and in preproduction for another promotional video as well.)
 
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I put this idea 'on ice' for now. The potential sponsors aren't going along with it for now.
Thanks for all the great input. Hopefully it can be used in the future :)
 
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