Best hypercardioid mic?

Avai · Mar 20, 2015

I've always used shotguns indoors for no-budget productions, because when I can't hire out the sound I just use whatever my friends happen to have laying around. Usually a Rode NTG-2. I want to buy a nice mic of my own for indoor use. I understand a hypercardioid will perform better than a shotgun in environments such as living rooms, kitchens, etc. where there are walls and other surfaces. I searched this forum and found someone posted the same $1200 buying guide in a few threads, and for hypercardioids this individual always suggests the Avantone CK-1 (and one broken link :lol:

).

Is the Avantone CK-1 really the go-to mic for filmmakers shooting low budget productions in homes? I tried to find some examples of its use on YouTube and it seems like only guitar players are buying this mic.

The $150 price is a pleasant surprise...but if that money would be better spent going toward a superior mic, I'd choose that route instead.

Would someone please give me some recommendations? I could spend up to $2,000 — but I'd prefer to pay closer to $150 of course! I want to get great sound but I don't really know sound very well yet (and I know an expensive mic doesn't mean great sound if I don't know what I'm doing with it). I'll be plugging into a Zoom H5.

Thanks in advance for your guidance. I truly appreciate it.

Alcove Audio · Mar 20, 2015

In the under $1k range the Audio Technica AT4053b ($600) seems to currently be the most popular, although the Audix SCX1/HC ($500) is gaining in popularity - I wonder if it's only because it's $100 cheaper, however. The Neumann KM 185 ($900) is also pretty good.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...4053b_Hypercardioid_Condenser_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/210677-REG/Neumann_KM_185_MT_KM_185_MT_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/764663-REG/Audix_SCX1_HC_Microphone_Kit.html

My $1,200 Buying Guide is prosumer gear with proven reputations of doing what they say they can with a fair degree of reliability. The Avantone CK-1 is a "go to" because it's cheap. But indoors even a cheap hypercardioid will be somewhat better than a shotgun mic in the hands of a greenhorn boom-op. It fits the rest of the list - getting the job done reliably for as little money and with as little hassle as possible.

I do audio post, although I used to do production sound and still get out in the field every so often, and I'll PSM/Boom-Op in a pinch for a few extremely good long-term clients. I usually rent (or request) what I need, and I always rent the good stuff - Sound Devices, Sanken, Nuemann, et. al. - when the budget allows. Otherwise it's straight low/no/mini/micro budget sound gear. I've used the stuff on my list, so it's first hand experience. Are there other items that will fill the bill? I'm sure there are, but I haven't used them, so I can't testify as to their performance.

BTW, you'll find I'm also a bit of a cynic. For example, my favorite bits of advice is:

"Opinions are like assholes;
Everybody has one and they all stink."

I'm one of just a handful of working audio professionals here on IndieTalk. I started as a musician, did great (Carnegie Hall, The Apollo Theatre, Madison Square Garden, etc.) until arthritis curtailed my performing and session career. I migrated into music engineering and from there to sound-for-picture. So I'm a swiss-army-knife jack-of-all-trades kind of audio guy, and I currently work mostly down in the weeds with the low budget types. So I've been there and done that, give the best advice I can from my perspective, and gladly defer to those more knowledgeable, such as my buddy APE (AudioPostExpert) who is what his name implies, an expert; he could probably cobble his posts together into a short book for indie filmmakers.

Anyway, the point of all this drivel is that my Guide is just that, a guide, not a rule book, from the perspective of a guy who's knocked around the audio world for a while.

sfoster · Mar 20, 2015

I ordered a refurbished scx1 off ebay. It hasn't arrived yet.

Avai · Mar 21, 2015

Thanks for your reply, Alcove Audio. I'm happy to hear any opinions from people with a lot of experience. That's exactly why I came here.

While I wouldn't mind dropping $150 on the Avantone CK-1 just to try it, I'm very skeptical of something priced so low. I'm having a lot of trouble finding reviews about this mic's performance in a filmmaking setting. The single review on B&H mentions poor build quality, which also scares me.

The Sennheiser MKH 50 at $1,200 and the Schoeps MK41 at $1,900 have a lot of good reviews all over the internet. From what I've read it sounds like the Sennheiser has a much sturdier build than the Schoeps, which makes me feel safe even though I'll still keep it boxed and only use it indoors. These both say "supercardioid"...but it seems like "super" and "hyper" might be interchangeable, based on the illustrated pickup patterns with circles and stuff. Is that difference just a marketing thing or am I missing something important?

I've also read some mics work well with Zoom recorders while others do not (most complaints I've found have been related to "hotness"). Has anyone used a $1,200 mic with a $200 recorder? If I go for a more expensive mic, should I also start saving for a more expensive recorder with a specific feature my H5 lacks?

I know I'm asking a lot of newbie questions which is probably annoying. I always Google before posting, but for these questions I either can't find the information I think I need, or the information I find doesn't make any sense to me. Thanks for being patient.

sfoster · Mar 21, 2015

damn dude for $2k it better have good reviews lol

if you're buying stuff this nice i hope you have an experienced boom op.

Most will tell you the money is better off spent hiring an audio person with their own professional equipment if you're talking about this sort of a price tag. Unless you yourself are planning to become a dedicated audio specialist.

I got the scx1 so i can get passable audio for youtube.. for stuff that I want to submit to film festivals I am going to get a pro

Avai · Mar 21, 2015

I have paid people for good sound before, and I plan to do it again. I also want a mic of my own so I don't have to use a shotgun for indoor side projects. I'm willing to spend money on a good mic if it will deliver decent results and last me a long time. I'd love to learn how to record good sound myself.

I found some "shoot outs" of the Audix SCX1 compared to the short shotguns I've used before, and the SCX1 indeed sounds far superior indoors. It also has wonderful reviews. This seems like a good choice for me.

It's difficult to find examples of the Sennheiser MKH 50 in use. The more expensive a mic is, the harder it is to find YouTubers demonstrating it. I guess that makes sense...

I'll rent a few mics to try out for myself, and then decide what I like.

Alcove Audio · Mar 21, 2015

Avai said:
While I wouldn't mind dropping $150 on the Avantone CK-1 just to try it, I'm very skeptical of something priced so low. I'm having a lot of trouble finding reviews about this mic's performance in a filmmaking setting. The single review on B&H mentions poor build quality, which also scares me.

As I said, it's cheap and will get the job done.

Sennheiser MKH 50 and the Schoeps MK41 are really nice mics (I have an MKH50 myself).

Avai said:
I've also read some mics work well with Zoom recorders while others do not (most complaints I've found have been related to "hotness"). Has anyone used a $1,200 mic with a $200 recorder? If I go for a more expensive mic, should I also start saving for a more expensive recorder with a specific feature my H5 lacks?

Consumer/prosumer gear like the H4n and the DR-series have relatively noisy preamps, and they are on the "weak" side. Mics that have internal battery powered phantom power schemes (like the NTG-2 and AT897) tend to have weaker output levels than other mics, as much as -6dB. Match that with weak preamps - so you have to increase the gain which increases the self-noise - and you have weak signal problems.

You'll lose a lot of the subtle detailed quality of the pro mics when you use a cheap audio recorder because of the substandard preamps. What many do is add a nice mixer/mic-pre to the signal chain and use the recorder as just a recorder, bypassing the preamps. I like the Sound Devices MM-1; it's a part of many professional production sound kits. And, of course, the Sound Devices 302 and other Sound Devices mixers sound great.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...evices_MM_1_MM_1_Single_Channel_Portable.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/292980-REG/Sound_Devices_302_302_Portable_3_Channel.html

PSC also makes some nice mixers in the "budget" range, like the DV ProMix 3.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300798-REG/PSC_FPSCDVMIX3_DV_PROMIX_3.html

Not as good a Sound Devices, but a damned site better than most prosumer mixers.

Avai said:
It's difficult to find examples of the Sennheiser MKH 50 in use. The more expensive a mic is, the harder it is to find YouTubers demonstrating it. I guess that makes sense...

Yup. If you want to hear examples of Sennheiser, Nuemann, Sanken and Schoeps just listen to any major motion picture.

Of course, the skill with which the gear is used is the predominant determining factor when it comes to production sound quality. But I guess you already knew that.

Avai said:
I have paid people for good sound before, and I plan to do it again.

Avai · Mar 21, 2015

Thanks for the detailed info, Alcove Audio! I really appreciate the effort you put into your reply.