Being Production Assistant

LOGAN L Productions

LOGAN L Productions

I've only been a PA once, and am waiting for the call on my second shoot.

I'm wondering, to all you professionals out there: How many PA jobs does a guy have to do before the professional world will feel that he's paid his dues?

If I'm good at being a director, or even a DP or something on an indie film; would it even matter that I've only PAed a few times? Or will people hire me anyway?

I just ask this because I'm guessing I will only get a few jobs this summer (me living in Dallas and all, there's a limited amount of PA spots which are quickly grabbed up) and this or next year I will be shooting my first feature for my producer friend. After this year I may not necessarily want to PA for much longer, seeing as I've done so much else...so, will people look at my 5 PA jobs on my resume, and my 8 Director/Producer/Writer jobs and not take me seriously or what?
 
Being a PA is good for seeing what goes on on the set. If you want to be a director for hire, you need a good reel and an agent that will shop it around for you.
 
If you can direct, you can direct. Sure it's good to have a few jobs under your belt, but no where does it say that you have to pay your dues. Keep working at getting better as a director, and pay attention on the PA jobs you do get. If you come out with a great feature, you won't be held back because you only did a few PA jobs.

Poke
 
I don't know how it works in the states but I would think that the Unions are pretty much the same.

when I first started working on film sets it was as a SWAT member for the X-Files then Slider, after that I did some Indie films and then took a long brake after I did a back flip off a wall and mist the air bag by about two feet and landed on my knees, then worked as an FX guy for about two years then down graded to a PA for a few shows, I have more then I need in the way of Credits to be a full time FX guy or a PA or a Props Master but the Union still will not let me and there reasoning for this is that the Effects Department is a closed office.

Reason for this is its the old boys that make the rules same thing with the Props Department.

what I would do if I were in your shoes is get your demo reel together and fire that off to the DGC and DGA with your working resume.
 
Okay, thanks for the advice guys.

I do want PA jobs. I'm not trying to get out of doing them. They can be great learning experiences, and studio shoots are waaay different from indie shoots. It's just hard to secure a good amount of those jobs here. I'm just curious; how many PA jobs have you all done?
 
Poke said:
If you can direct, you can direct. Sure it's good to have a few jobs under your belt, but no where does it say that you have to pay your dues.
Click to expand...

If you can find a short cut to getting where you need to go, then I say go for it. However, as a person who has had to pay thier dues, I do find it irritating to find people who feel that they should get what they want without having to do any work for it. I don't have alot of patience for people who want things to just be handed to them. "I want this, so I should have it, and too bad if I step on you to get it."

...now, just in case I got the intention of this comment wrong, please pardon my rant, but I have had alot of people with a magnified sense of entitlement and no experience think they were going to blast me out of my position....they have been and are disappointed and I don't mind handing that to them.

...at this point in my life, when I have been stonewalled, doormatted and stopped dead-bang to death, there is no way I intend to let myself be pushed aside when I HAVE paid my dues....

...spinner :cool:
 
I hate the term "paying ones dues". To whom? Those who have spent 40 years in the industry and still make only enough for a 1 bedroom apt. in Hollywood and feel like everyone who comes after them should be subjected to the same disasterous career, grueling hours, and subordanate positions and demeaning labor as they have been? To the industry because it has simply existed? To whom?

I say be a PA to work, learn, watch, and definitely pay attention to what works and doesnt on set. If you have cards, cool, otherwise just give people your number, chat with them, find out what YOU want to know. This isnt some game. You dont HAVE to be there. In most cases you're there for free or for some rediculously small amount anyway so make it productive and fun... network and work your butt off.

Its not about figuring out the system to get ahead, its about getting ahead. And regarding shortcuts, yes many many successful stories involve not ELIMINATING the hands on working experience, just tweaking it a bit or instead of going point A-B-C-D-E-F-G, and directing their first picture at 39, jumping a couple of steps. You're allowed to do that in life you know.

This coming from a guy who has spent roughly the past ten years working as a PA, Grip, Assistant Editor, Editor, Best Boy, Gaffer, Director, Actor on a lot of video and several cinema projects.
 
Last edited:
WideShot said:
I hate the term "paying ones dues". To whom? Those who have spent 40 years in the industry and still make only enough for a 1 bedroom apt. in Hollywood and feel like everyone who comes after them should be subjected to the same disasterous career, grueling hours, and subordanate positions and demeaning labor as they have been? .
Click to expand...

...the point I am making is this, and I have seen this with my own eyes: a person is trained well, knows what they are doing, they do the leg work of making sure that they know what they are doing, build up trust with the people they will have to be working with, fill in when the dept. heads need them in a pinch and they get passed over for the son of someone who is doing something for the boss, nepotism at it finest, the son has no experience or background outside daddy knowing someone, is not doing the job he should be, departments are screaming and....a year later he still has his job and the person who knew what they were doing is still waiting.

I realize life is not fair, but you know, we should stop falling back on that and occaisionally do what is right.

...I have no qualms with someone taking advantage of an opportunity. By all means do it. I do not think that others need to subjected to anothers crappy experience, but the way you learn is by being around the business, and if you put in the time, the effort, and you give a da--, you should at least be considered.

...I don't believe for one minute that if you were passed over because of someone who had no idea of what it was like to be where you are, 10 years as a pa, grip etc, and someone who doesn't know anything gets to where you need to be simply because of who they know, I think I would be p-o'ed.

...and just for the record, I try to help people out regardless of when they come in, but I think that I also need to look out for my own career. I am not an underhanded type of person, but I refuse to allow someone who is inexperienced to jeopardize the look of my work and the final product simply because he is more interested in the title and status of the position.

...life may not be fair, but I try to keep my little corner of it as even as possible, I believe in karma...

--spinner :cool:
 
Don't take my words wrong. I am not for nepotism or skating by, but I don't feel like anyone owes any dues to be a filmmaker. Shane Carruth made one of the most thought provoking films of the past decade (Primer) and he had never been on a set before he directed his first shot. If the question is, "Is it good to try and get as much experience as possible?" then the answer is, "Yes!" If the question is, "Do you have to take x number of menial jobs in order to make it?" then the answer is, "No."

I am currently paying my dues in the field of news, and if Logan got a directing job tomorrow, I would hold no spite towards him...because he owes me nothing.

Poke
 
Poke said:
Don't take my words wrong. I am not for nepotism or skating by, but I don't feel like anyone owes any dues to be a filmmaker. Shane Carruth made one of the most thought provoking films of the past decade (Primer) and he had never been on a set before he directed his first shot. If the question is, "Is it good to try and get as much experience as possible?" then the answer is, "Yes!" If the question is, "Do you have to take x number of menial jobs in order to make it?" then the answer is, "No."

I am currently paying my dues in the field of news, and if Logan got a directing job tomorrow, I would hold no spite towards him...because he owes me nothing.

Poke
Click to expand...

....I think that we both pretty much agree, Poke. I am also in news, though I am in the production end and most production people are frustrated filmmakers.

...being a filmmaker, I think, is like being a musician, or a painter...you put your stuff out there and take your hits. (Funny the way people in a market like mine, do alot of posturing.) I do think that in this field it is probably a bad idea to expect things to just be handed over. (I don't mean you, Poke). :D I feel as though dues are more like figuring out what it is like to be in the business, and in that respect, you need to learn to walk first....

...it is such a risky undertaking to go into film, that if one of us, gets out there a day earlier, I will be the first person to applaud....and I don't think anyone should have to do menial in order to make it. That would truly suck... maybe we ought to share news war stories.... :rolleyes: :D

--spinner :cool:
 
spin - No problem, a lot of smart words spoken in your response to mine. That term pay ones dues really irks me though especially in this industry.

And yeah, people that dont "deserve" to get ahead all the time. People become successful directors and they don't know what a c-stand or a 10k is. I mean, they will soon enough, their people will show them and correct them. But thats a really backwards way of learning and if you go into directing like that Im suprised more dp's dont stab those people on set (j/k!)..
 
Well, just so we all understand each other:

1. I don't think I have anything coming to me. The feature film I spoke of is an indie film and I won't be paid much - if at all - for it. I was just seeing if being good at what I do is enough to get respect and be taken seriously in the industry....or if people make sure that I've done my share of menial jobs first.

2. I don't think that I'm some awesome director that will just be able to snap my fingers and make great cinema. As far as my filmography goes, I have yet to make a film that even satisfies me! I am constantly working on ideas to make my FIRST GOOD FILM!

3. I don't think that I'm above being a PA. I am actually applying for jobs right now! I know my place as a PA, and was just wondering how others felt about the whole thing. I actually WANT more PA/Grip/Best Boy/ Whatever jobs...they are just hard to come by in my area!

4. I know what a C-stand and a 10k is!

...just to make sure y'all know where I'm coming from. It seems like some of you have the idea that I think I'm the shit and I am about to direct a Hollywood Blockbuster.
 
...well, heck, Logan for all we know, maybe you are the shit! :D

I think what happened is that your unassuming question just brought up other things that could be discussed and the whole dang thing jus' spun outta control. Its no reflection on you and much more a reflection on those of us, mainly me, who went off on a tangent. My apologies....

For the record....I am glad that someone is getting a chance to get out there and learn the tricks of the trade just like I am. The PA situation is going to give you invaluable knowledge and just make you better at what you will be doing....and good for you that you know what a C-stand is cuz I am not sure if I do. Hey, I'm not proud, but you learn more from the questions than you do from thinking you know the answers. Then again, I am coming from a creative drought and still have alot to learn.

...so in case the sentiment was lost in all of this: CONGRATULATIONS AND GOOD LUCK! Maybe we'll all be able to say we knew you (posted with you) back in the day.... :woohoo:

--spinner :cool:
 
Logan, I sent you a PM about 2 PA availabilities in Dallas.
 
Spinner - no need to apologize. No one was disrespectful or anything...I just wanted to make my position clearer so people wouldn't get the wrong idea about what I was saying and asking.

Indie - Thanks man. You're the best! I think the first one is for Houston, but I'll apply for them both on Tuesday (after Memorial day). Thanks again!
 
What's the story with PA applications. Do productions advertise PA positions and get people to fill out application forms?
 
My experience is that you have to pursue the companies and ask "Are you hiring?"

Every once in a while they will post a job opening, but for some reason I've never gotten a job that way...only by randomly asking for work.
 
Another idea is to form a company, or group of PAs with your PA friends. Then, companies know when they need a PA you will always have one available. Here's an example: http://pasource.net/. There even used to be a group of Parking PAs in NY called Coneheads (because they set up the cones). Parking PAs get to the set the night before to make sure no one parks where you're shooting.
 
LOGAN L Productions said:
I've only been a PA once, and am waiting for the call on my second shoot.

I'm wondering, to all you professionals out there: How many PA jobs does a guy have to do before the professional world will feel that he's paid his dues?

If I'm good at being a director, or even a DP or something on an indie film; would it even matter that I've only PAed a few times? Or will people hire me anyway?

I just ask this because I'm guessing I will only get a few jobs this summer (me living in Dallas and all, there's a limited amount of PA spots which are quickly grabbed up) and this or next year I will be shooting my first feature for my producer friend. After this year I may not necessarily want to PA for much longer, seeing as I've done so much else...so, will people look at my 5 PA jobs on my resume, and my 8 Director/Producer/Writer jobs and not take me seriously or what?
Click to expand...

I think your question is something along the lines of: If I was a PA on a huge film and a writer/director on an indie/small film, will that help me get another job on a large film? Well, my opinion is that if you are getting hired as a PA then your PA skills matter, and if you are getting hired to direct, then directing skills matter :cool: Maybe you can work up to coordinator/2nd AD, etc.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top