Basic equipment advice please

Artemisia · Jul 23, 2013

Thanks in advance if you can help me.

My family are planning on setting my daughter up with basic film-making equipment for her 18th. She doesn't want a car or party or anything like that, nor the horse my older (vet student) daughter had. She's always wanted to make films.

I am completely ignorant (sorry). I know she'll need a camera, a steadicam type rig (I've been looking at Merlin 2 but keep getting conflicting reviews) an editing package (looked at Sony), lights, a microphone etc.

Obviously, we're not that rich, but between the whole extended family, we can probably scrape together an absolute maximum of £3,000 for some basic stuff. She already has a scriptwriting package, and writes her own stuff. She would love to shoot some indie films to her scripts.

I would be very grateful for any advice on what to buy. We're all anxious to help her out - she has had a completely horrible time for the last 18 months and been very ill. She's just started to get a bit better, and we would love to give her a really special 18th next month.

Please forgive my ignorance - I'm not really a film person.

ChimpPhobiaFilms · Jul 23, 2013

Welcome to IndieTalk!

No need to apologize, there's a lot to learn. And that's very kind of you to be doing that for your daughter. Kudos to you sir.

For a camera, I recommend the Canon T3i. It's light, portable, easy to learn, and it has amazing image quality. You can save money by getting it used, or body only. That means you buy a lens separately. For lenses, I recommend getting a Canon 50mm 1.8, and a Rokinon 14mm 2.8.

Canon T3i ($500)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=c0GxKmFq8BfbIElLWWwfBQ&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

Canon 50mm 1.8 lens ($100-$130)
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...=Ft7uUaKaL8iQyQGO04DoCg&sqi=2&ved=0CGQQxBUwAA

Rokinon 14mm 2.8 ($350)
https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...a=X&ei=O97uUcSVEoqTyQHptoCADA&ved=0CF4QxBUwAA

A tripod is important as well. I recommend the Ravelli AVTP 75mm bowl tripod ($140)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...w9BsItuUEcpVCMTrNVKKb2w&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

If you want to roll it around like a dolly ($40)
http://www.amazon.com/Ravelli-ATD-Professional-Tripod-Camera/dp/B000YB862E/ref=pd_bxgy_p_img_y

For rigs, I recommend this one ($900)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=VHy_nSJFeT4ZXYTXpDAcCg&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

If you want to save a ton of money on rigs, I recommend the Spider Steady rig ($240)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=IV7haxoVfbNA8czGVMGgyA&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

Are you on a PC or a Mac? I recommend HitFilm 2 Ultimate as an editing/FX program if you are on a PC. Hitfilm 2 Ultimate is only available on PC, but will be available on Mac in November. Hitfilm 2 Ultimate is an editing and VFX program that cost $500. But it's worth it. Here is a great review of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHZCp2Jd5jw

They also have a channel with tutorials to learn the basics of the program:
https://www.youtube.com/user/FXhomeHitFilm

Here is the Hitfilm website ($500)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...r8kN6hS1Pwrb8fm0yGfNTOg&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

If you want a more professional program, I recommend Adobe Premiere Pro CC. It's a good program, but is much more complicated, and cost $50 a month.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FL1vASODjAPYxGQrIktH5OA&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

For mics, I recommend this ($250)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ahwEd4vosO3fGqX3RhFlppw&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

For lighting I recommend this ($550)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...kdG-7Gp7DT_N1gxBzYTWUWw&bvm=bv.49641647,d.aWc

If you want to save money on lighting, pick up some work lights from a Home Depot-type store.

I hope all goes well. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. IndieTalk has many great members that are willing to answer your questions. Now, it's great to have gear, but knowing how to use the gear, and make films well is just as important. You don't have to buy hundreds of filmmaking books, the internet is a great free resource. Here are my favorite filmmaking channels:

https://www.youtube.com/user/filmriot
https://www.youtube.com/user/indymogul
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBasicFilmmaker
https://www.youtube.com/user/thefrugalfilmmaker
http://www.youtube.com/user/danonabouncycastle
http://www.youtube.com/user/framelinestv

Good luck!

Alcove Audio · Jul 23, 2013

ChimpPhobiaFilms · Jul 23, 2013

Alcove Audio said:
Instead of buying a whole bunch of gear you may want to use the money to finance a project.

So, instead of having lots of equipment that's going to take A LOT of time and effort to learn how to use properly spend the money on hiring people who are experienced in their crafts - cinematography/lighting, production sound, hair/make-up, set design, visuals editing, sound editing, etc.

We're not talking to a filmmaker, we're talking to a parent wanting to get their daughter filmmaking gear for her birthday. But than again he/she could just give her some money :huh:

Alcove Audio · Jul 24, 2013

ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
We're not talking to a filmmaker, we're talking to a parent wanting to get their daughter filmmaking gear for her birthday.

To me the key phrase is/was:

Artemisia said:
She's always wanted to make films.

And I want to provide Dad with options.

Filmmaking is a team "sport." Unless you are doing hand drawn animation you cannot do it all by yourself. And even then you would still need someone to compose the score and perhaps someone else to do the sound design and the mix.

You don't have to own a single piece of gear if you want to direct, "all" you need is a vision and the ability to communicate that vision to the cast and crew - and ultimately, of course, the audience. You can hire professionals or hook up with ambitious entry level people who want to be DPs, PSMs, visual and audio editors, etc. With £3,000 she can make ten projects for £300, or three projects for £1,000, or six projects for £500... After the money is spent there will be actual completed projects to show family and friends, or for a film school reel, or for submission to festivals, or to post on YouTube - not a closet full of gear collecting dust after she gets bogged down trying to learn how to use a camera, light a scene, run mic/recorder kit, edit visuals and edit audio.

If one or both parents want to be involved they can produce - help her with setting up the LLC (or whatever the equivalent is in the UK), doing the preproduction, acquiring cast & crew, production scheduling, finances, post and everything else involved with being a filmmaker.

Filmmaking is 88% business and 12% art, both of which require intense attention to detail; and that's what defeats most indie filmmakers when it comes to putting out a QUALITY product, the lack of attention to details and the intense organization of finances and scheduling. Filmmaking is simple, but there is a whole hell of a lot of simple.

Those here on IndieTalk are familiar with my position on film sound - and most other crafts: hire a pro; if you can't afford to hire a pro, hook up with an ambitious, talented up-and-comer; if you can't hook up with an ambitious up-and-comer, rent the gear and try to find someone who knows something about the craft. When it comes to owning gear you shouldn't buy anything you don't use every day. It's just too damned expensive; new cameras, new audio recorders, etc. appear every six to twelve months - 90% of the time your gear is obsolete by the time you get to your third project.

To continue rambling...

Dad, does she really want to be a filmmaker, or does she want to make fun videos for YouTube? If she just wants to have fun a basic camcorder and a quality consumer mic (like the Rode VideoMic) will do the job just fine. If she really wants to be a filmmaker I recommend doing A LOT of reading, participating in filmmaking forums like IndieTalk, and working on low/no/mini/micro budget film sets. If she still wants to be a filmmaker after six months or so, then spend all that money on producing her projects.

gorillaonabike · Jul 24, 2013

Artemisia said:
Obviously, we're not that rich, but between the whole extended family, we can probably scrape together an absolute maximum of £3,000 for some basic stuff. She already has a scriptwriting package, and writes her own stuff. She would love to shoot some indie films to her scripts.

As a note, the names of the kit are different in the UK and prices vary fairly dramatically. In the US, kit is loads cheaper but if you try to import it into the UK, you will end up being clobbered for duty etc... so this is only an option if you really know what you are doing.

My suggestion is based on buying an initial 'learning' package. So I would go with this:

1. Camera

You need a Canon. Lots of people will recommend different pieces of kit but Canon is a really safe option and they make great cameras. For £500 ish, you can buy an amazing little 550d which is an excellent starter camera with a decent stock lens. If you have some money left over at the end, add a prime lens on to this, maybe a 35mm 1.8 Canon.

Also buy her a variable ND filter for the stock as this will allow her to shoot outdoors in the summer. Think of this as sunglasses for the camera.

2. Something to put the camera on

Tripod and fluid head. Buy a video tripod, a monopod (to allow her to move around) and a fluid head (probably a 701). This will allow her to put it on a tripod to get static shots and a monopod will allow her to get some movement etc...

For Manfrotto (the minimum standard of brand I use for film making), this will cost in the region of £450 - £500 GBP new in the UK. Personally, I went used on ebay and the cost was £150 GBP all in. What you will discover is that you do not need a new tripod etc... because a tripod lasts forever. Buy used for under £200 GBP and spend the money elsewhere.

If you need help with ebay, please PM me.

3. Lights - you will probably want 3 (3 point lighting - google it) - sit down, this costs a fortune in the UK. Think somewhere under £600 for two Lowels which will get her started. We are talking around £900 for 3.

A reputable shop for lights is somewhere like Prokit - www.Prokit.co.uk and make sure you are not drinking a cup of tea when you have a look at the prices.

At her stage of development, I would avoid buying fire-risk junk (unless you don't mind your house burning down). Lowels will last her a lifetime.

4. Sound

Film requires sound. I would suggest a Tascam DR100 MkII and an NTG1 as a starter kit. This will need a boom, shock mount. In addition, if shooting outside, a zeppelin and dead cat (the furry thing that goes on the outside) are necessary to avoid wind noise. This is all around £700 new and don't forget to buy a couple of XLR cables.

5. Software

If she has a Mac, I would strongly recommend FCP X and Motion 5 as a combo (Motion 5 is only £50).

As a total, this will all be under £3k GBP and will be a fantastic little starter kit. If you want to adopt...

8salacious9 · Jul 24, 2013

Artemisia said:
Thanks in advance if you can help me.

My family are planning on setting my daughter up with basic film-making equipment for her 18th. She doesn't want a car or party or anything like that, nor the horse my older (vet student) daughter had. She's always wanted to make films.

I am completely ignorant (sorry). I know she'll need a camera, a steadicam type rig (I've been looking at Merlin 2 but keep getting conflicting reviews) an editing package (looked at Sony), lights, a microphone etc.

Obviously, we're not that rich, but between the whole extended family, we can probably scrape together an absolute maximum of £3,000 for some basic stuff. She already has a scriptwriting package, and writes her own stuff. She would love to shoot some indie films to her scripts.

I would be very grateful for any advice on what to buy. We're all anxious to help her out - she has had a completely horrible time for the last 18 months and been very ill. She's just started to get a bit better, and we would love to give her a really special 18th next month.

Please forgive my ignorance - I'm not really a film person.

I'll do her film for £200.. and teach her what i know along the way, Max 3 days shooting in total.

also be very careful, most teenagers claim to want to do things but then by the age of 21 want to do something else, Party hard, take drugs, end up in strange places, try to fly off buildings etc, I must ask how long your daughter has wanted to do this, if its been less than a year, then dont bother until she has a solid foundation in wanting to do this business..

Dreadylocks · Jul 24, 2013

I agree with Alcove. A camera is something that will become obsolete in a year. Having finished projects to point at, be proud of, and call her own will last a lifetime.

It's the difference between:
"See? I AM a filmmaker, here are my films."
and
"See? I AM a filmmaker, here is my camera."

Best of luck and happy birthday to your daughter.

wheatgrinder · Jul 24, 2013

good dad.

Yeah, as a dad (6x) my self I get you.

That said, here is what I would do in your situation:
Id get her a camera for sure, but something inexpensive and useful, say a DSLR. Maybe a used cannon T2i\T3i and a kit lens. This is a great film camera and a great stills camera just to have around, win win even if shes not that into films.

You could scale up to a Panasonic GH3 if you have the cash..

The camera though, is just the "toy" to open and play with at the party.. the real gift is below..

In her name, open a "film budget" checking account for her to use to make her first film. Put as much as you were willing to spend on the gifts.

Stay involved, buy more gear that SHE discovers she needs, maybe you can learn to swing a boom mic! Its fun and very useful skill! Be sure to get her signed up on this forum. Start here! This is the best place on the internet I promise! Encourage her to make her first film right away!
good luck dad.

Cracker Funk · Jul 24, 2013

wheatgrinder said:
good dad.

Yeah, as a dad (6x) my self I get you.

That said, here is what I would do in your situation:
Id get her a camera for sure, but something inexpensive and useful, say a DSLR. Maybe a used cannon T2i\T3i and a kit lens. This is a great film camera and a great stills camera just to have around, win win even if shes not that into films.

You could scale up to a Panasonic GH3 if you have the cash..

The camera though, is just the "toy" to open and play with at the party.. the real gift is below..

In her name, open a "film budget" checking account for her to use to make her first film. Put as much as you were willing to spend on the gifts.

Stay involved, buy more gear that SHE discovers she needs, maybe you can learn to swing a boom mic! Its fun and very useful skill! Be sure to get her signed up on this forum. Start here! This is the best place on the internet I promise! Encourage her to make her first film right away!
good luck dad.

Dang, wheaty, you got 6?! I didn't know you were Catholic!

Anyway, I like this advice. Cheap (but very usable) camera, with stock lens, is a great start.