Automotive Review Video Project - Help Please

rave426 · Nov 25, 2013

First of all...I'm a newb...no...an uber-newb at filmmaking

My goal is to create my own automotive review videos - something similar to Top Gear/Fifth Gear/Drive videos.

I'm great with cars, but not so much with film so I'm looking to learn about how to get this started.

The camera
Because I'll need something to shoot in-car discussion and external car motion at a track, I'll need something pretty versatile. I'll need something that also does nice still pics.

I'm on a budget and from my research here are the cams that seem to be the best option (in no particular order):

1. Canon 5D Mark II or 6D - Great at stills and cinematic video, but will lack of continuous autofocus hold me back?

2. Canon 70D - 1.6x Crop sensor compared to the others, but does have the new an improved auto focus for moving shots.

3. Lumix GH3 - Great video options including 60P for slow mo and headphone jack. It has a smaller sensor than others so will cinematic video/still pic image quality suffer?

Lenses

1. I have no earthly idea yet

That’s as far as I have gotten. Do the camera options I have make sense and if so, what do you experts recommend? If not, what other camera would you recommend?

Also because I know the project will be difficult I'm looking for people who may have a passion for creating similar videos. I wouldn't mind working with some up and coming indie filmakers to work on this project. I'd be willing to pay some ammount. Any idea where I may can find people like this?

rayw · Nov 25, 2013

Where are these car review videos going to be seen?
Youtube channel?

About how long do you expect them to be? 5 - 10 minutes? Longer?

What are you going to edit with? Computer specs and NLE?

Audio collection on a mic & boom, or voice over?

And don't ever use autofocus. Ever.

rave426 · Nov 25, 2013

rayw said:
Where are these car review videos going to be seen?
Youtube channel?

About how long do you expect them to be? 5 - 10 minutes? Longer?

What are you going to edit with? Computer specs and NLE?

Audio collection on a mic & boom, or voice over?

And don't ever use autofocus. Ever.

1. I'll be creating a youtube channel and link the channel to a blog. Videos will probably be about 10 mins.

2. My current computer is not the most potent. Its a 2010 MBP. 2.4 GHZ, 8GB Ram, Firewire - (may get s external SSD). I will build a new dual OS computer next year.

3. I'll need audio collection but I'm not sure what the best way is. I'll also be doing voice over at times. So..both.

4. Why not use autofocus? Given that I and my friends dont really know what we are doing, I figured it may work well. Again..I really really may need some help from some experienced Indie folks. Maybe I'm worried to much. I just expecting that if someone is shooting me driving and passing by on a road and they are stationed on a hill that autofocus may come in handy. Maybe its not as important as I think??

Thanks

Reggie

Alcove Audio · Nov 25, 2013

rave426 said:
I'm on a budget

What is that budget?

BTW, a decent prosumer audio kit will set you back about $1,200. You'll need someone with at least basic production sound knowledge and skills to run it for you. You'll need to spend some serious coin on audio post equipment as well.

Revvd Media · Nov 25, 2013

Honestly, my suggestion if you'd like to get this off the ground relatively quickly is "hire" an experienced cinematographer. Hiring one doesn't necessarily mean you need to pay, but of course offer him full credit for filming, perhaps some free meals, etc. I assume that since you claim to not know much about film, you probably don't understand the inner workings of a camera, how to achieve a shot etc. "Good" photography is a learning curve, and I personally feel "good" video is an even steeper learning curve. You can't just pick up a good quality camera, point it at a subject and achieve good results. A good cinematographer with proper lighting could shame a newbie just using a cell phone, I've seen it done. I too am a big time car guy, I do know my stuff, makes, models, specs, the physics, etc. If you're going to be the presenter/host of the show, I suggest you practice your hosting style. Hosts need to be energetic and entertaining, and it's not for everyone.

Long story short, if you're going to film it yourself, you're going to need a lot of practice and research before you get "good" results. If your quality isn't up to par with your competition, people aren't going to come back for more. For that reason, I suggest you hire someone who knows what they're doing, or take the time to learn all you need to know, then proceed.

rave426 · Nov 25, 2013

Alcove Audio said:
What is that budget?

BTW, a decent prosumer audio kit will set you back about $1,200. You'll need someone with at least basic production sound knowledge and skills to run it for you. You'll need to spend some serious coin on audio post equipment as well.

Yes I was expecting to spend between $1200 and $1700 for startup kit. I'm not sure how much audio equipment I need, but you are correct in that I have to add that to my budget.

Revvd Media said:
Honestly, my suggestion if you'd like to get this off the ground relatively quickly is "hire" an experienced cinematographer. Hiring one doesn't necessarily mean you need to pay, but of course offer him full credit for filming, perhaps some free meals, etc. I assume that since you claim to not know much about film, you probably don't understand the inner workings of a camera, how to achieve a shot etc. "Good" photography is a learning curve, and I personally feel "good" video is an even steeper learning curve. You can't just pick up a good quality camera, point it at a subject and achieve good results. A good cinematographer with proper lighting could shame a newbie just using a cell phone, I've seen it done. I too am a big time car guy, I do know my stuff, makes, models, specs, the physics, etc. If you're going to be the presenter/host of the show, I suggest you practice your hosting style. Hosts need to be energetic and entertaining, and it's not for everyone.

Long story short, if you're going to film it yourself, you're going to need a lot of practice and research before you get "good" results. If your quality isn't up to par with your competition, people aren't going to come back for more. For that reason, I suggest you hire someone who knows what they're doing, or take the time to learn all you need to know, then proceed.

I totally agree. Being an automotive enthusiast and having watched videos for YEARS (I'm 28) I understand how video quality can make or break a video. I'm a bit anal so I will not release anything until I am satisfied....the downside is that I'm anal lol...I don't want to get stuck for months trying to learn things that somebody else could knock out in 10 mins. Its a negative return.

As you said, I really need to find some aid. I am also actively practicing my hosting/speaking skills to get ready for the first shot. I'm sure I'll have to do some test videos to really see how I act on camera. Not only do I believe so, but have been told that I have the personality. With that said...words are jsut hogwash. I'll put my all into it and see how I come out.

Any idea how I may find people to work with me?

Thanks

Reggie

Revvd Media · Nov 25, 2013

First thing I'd like to note based your comments: "I don't want to get stuck for months trying to learn things that somebody else could knock out in 10 mins", Although I'm sure you're exaggerating, just so you know, I (as others from my research) seem to be getting around 1 minute of footage per 1 hour of time on the set. This includes setting up for lighting, different camera angles, trying to direct actors, etc. Of course, this can be done quicker, or it can take much longer depending on the complexity of the shot. Just food for thought is why I'd mention that.

Regarding hosting, definitely practice and see where you are at. I spent some time doing gaming/commentary on YouTube and spent a lot of time chatting with other commentators. A lot of people thing they are great hosts and think their content is interesting, but to be honest, most is not that good and really doesn't stand out at all. You really need to be sure you go above and beyond to attain and keep an audience.

For finding actors, you have a few options which have been spoken on these forums. You could use free resources such as Craigslist, etc, and also look into getting together with other filmmaker groups in your area. You might be able to find people to help out with your project. Pitch it around and see what you get. Remember though, you often get what you pay for. Free labor is rarely your best quality labor.

rave426 · Nov 26, 2013

Revvd Media said:
First thing I'd like to note based your comments: "I don't want to get stuck for months trying to learn things that somebody else could knock out in 10 mins", Although I'm sure you're exaggerating, just so you know, I (as others from my research) seem to be getting around 1 minute of footage per 1 hour of time on the set. This includes setting up for lighting, different camera angles, trying to direct actors, etc. Of course, this can be done quicker, or it can take much longer depending on the complexity of the shot. Just food for thought is why I'd mention that.

Regarding hosting, definitely practice and see where you are at. I spent some time doing gaming/commentary on YouTube and spent a lot of time chatting with other commentators. A lot of people thing they are great hosts and think their content is interesting, but to be honest, most is not that good and really doesn't stand out at all. You really need to be sure you go above and beyond to attain and keep an audience.

For finding actors, you have a few options which have been spoken on these forums. You could use free resources such as Craigslist, etc, and also look into getting together with other filmmaker groups in your area. You might be able to find people to help out with your project. Pitch it around and see what you get. Remember though, you often get what you pay for. Free labor is rarely your best quality labor.

Thanks for the info. Yes, I'm learning that good film takes a lot of work. I'll start looking for film groups in my area and see what I can find.

On the same thought I really need to get at least one cam myself so I can start understanding the process and practice my presenting.

Does anybody have any recommendations on my first post. :lol:

I'd like to get a nice camera

Revvd Media · Nov 26, 2013

For cameras, I don't have any recommendations for any actual video cameras as I really don't know much about them, but I can make recommendations on the DSLR end.

You say your budget is 1200-1700 which will limit you. If you want to go on the cost-effective end, you have the T3i/T4i options. Don't even bother with T5i IMO, it's just more money for nothing. These camera produce good quality HD video (usually mostly limited by the lens on them), but suffer at higher ISOs which means you don't have a lot of good low light capabilities.

The "middle of the pack" camera would be the 70D as you suggest, watch some reviews on the video for that camera to determine if the autofocus will work. I watched a couple, and while it does seem to work...I started off with a T3i, therefore I don't trust automatic focus in video...yet. The still images would be only slightly better than the T3i, and the video quality probably wouldn't be much better, although I think the 70D should give a little better ISO (low light) performance. Of course this comes at double the cost of the T3i.

For the 5D or the 6D, unless you fore go the kit with the 24-105L lens (which I do not suggest), you'll be over your 1700 budget unless you get a smoking deal. Both of these camera have full frame sensors which produce beautiful stills, and the video quality is better, but marginally so as the frame is still limited to 1080p, but the larger sized pixels do pick up a slightly better image. These cameras have good high ISO performance and almost allow you to get usable picture even in a poorly lit city at night, results may vary of course.

Long story short, you have these following options:

T3i/T4i/T5i with a great lens (maybe the 24-105L, but the choice is yours). This will give great quality (lens is usually more important than the camera)

70D is marginally better image plus a "great new autofocus for video", the body might be had for 1100 or so on sale, then you need a lens. Might be able to get a used L lens for 600 to keep to the budget.

6D and 5D are probably going to fall out of your budget. Best case might be a used 5D Mark II, but you'll have to look around a bit. It is a good camera, but you won't be getting new then, buy with caution.

None of this accounts for audio gear. You're going to need a field recorder + boom mic with boom pole and shock mount and/or lapel mic. My cheapo setup ran me a total of about 400 dollars for a Zoom H1, Rode VideoMic Pro and a deadcat, plus using a cheapo painter's pole with some holes and bolts in it to hold the equipment. Better equipment costs much more.

rave426 · Nov 26, 2013

Revvd Media said:
For cameras, I don't have any recommendations for any actual video cameras as I really don't know much about them, but I can make recommendations on the DSLR end.

You say your budget is 1200-1700 which will limit you. If you want to go on the cost-effective end, you have the T3i/T4i options. Don't even bother with T5i IMO, it's just more money for nothing. These camera produce good quality HD video (usually mostly limited by the lens on them), but suffer at higher ISOs which means you don't have a lot of good low light capabilities.

The "middle of the pack" camera would be the 70D as you suggest, watch some reviews on the video for that camera to determine if the autofocus will work. I watched a couple, and while it does seem to work...I started off with a T3i, therefore I don't trust automatic focus in video...yet. The still images would be only slightly better than the T3i, and the video quality probably wouldn't be much better, although I think the 70D should give a little better ISO (low light) performance. Of course this comes at double the cost of the T3i.

For the 5D or the 6D, unless you fore go the kit with the 24-105L lens (which I do not suggest), you'll be over your 1700 budget unless you get a smoking deal. Both of these camera have full frame sensors which produce beautiful stills, and the video quality is better, but marginally so as the frame is still limited to 1080p, but the larger sized pixels do pick up a slightly better image. These cameras have good high ISO performance and almost allow you to get usable picture even in a poorly lit city at night, results may vary of course.

Long story short, you have these following options:

T3i/T4i/T5i with a great lens (maybe the 24-105L, but the choice is yours). This will give great quality (lens is usually more important than the camera)

70D is marginally better image plus a "great new autofocus for video", the body might be had for 1100 or so on sale, then you need a lens. Might be able to get a used L lens for 600 to keep to the budget.

6D and 5D are probably going to fall out of your budget. Best case might be a used 5D Mark II, but you'll have to look around a bit. It is a good camera, but you won't be getting new then, buy with caution.

None of this accounts for audio gear. You're going to need a field recorder + boom mic with boom pole and shock mount and/or lapel mic. My cheapo setup ran me a total of about 400 dollars for a Zoom H1, Rode VideoMic Pro and a deadcat, plus using a cheapo painter's pole with some holes and bolts in it to hold the equipment. Better equipment costs much more.

Thanks. I've really been looking into the Panasonic GH3 due to its video capabilities. So its down to it, the 6D or 70D. I'd rather not get a used 5D when I can get a good new deal on a seemingly improved 6D for near the same price.

The only downside to the GH3 is that it doesnt create the amazing photos of the 6D. I think the video ability is just fine, but I'll surely miss the IQ. With that said....images are very much 2nd string for my goal.

All of this confusion!

Revvd Media · Nov 26, 2013

rave426 said:
Thanks. I've really been looking into the Panasonic GH3 due to its video capabilities. So its down to it, the 6D or 70D. I'd rather not get a used 5D when I can get a good new deal on a seemingly improved 6D for near the same price.

The only downside to the GH3 is that it doesnt create the amazing photos of the 6D. I think the video ability is just fine, but I'll surely miss the IQ. With that said....images are very much 2nd string for my goal.

All of this confusion!

Yes, I guess I did only mention Canon. I guess I'm a bit biased as I'm on my second one now and I have liked them. I don't have any idea on the still quality of the GH3, but I have heard rave reviews on the IQ of the video for the GH3. By comparison, it seems the Canon looks a bit soft. You have to remember the GH3 uses a micro four thirds sensor, so the crop factor is even larger than the Canon APS-C (I think M43 is 2.0x and APS-C is 1.6x crop). This means shallow depth of field is a little harder to achieve, and a wider lens becomes a longer lens. This would be tricky in tight spaces, and this is a big factor as to why I've totally thrown out the idea of a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema...I need the wide angle for my small rooms I film in.

More food for thought...haha.