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Antagonist Motivations
- Thread starter mus
- Start date
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/film/the-50-best-movie-villains-of-all-time
Eh...
Lettuce just skip to the top ten!
10. Leatherface, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre - Killing is fun
9. Dr. Mabuse, Dr. Mabuse: The Gambler - Sociopath
8. Norman Bates, Psycho - Protective instincts a wee keyed up
7. The Wicked Witch of the West, The Wizard of Oz - Excessively competitive
6. Frank Booth, Blue Velvet - Poly perversions
5. Michael Myers, Halloween - Nurture reinforced nature + slighted
4. Hannibal Lecter, The Silence of the Lambs - Sociopath
3. Frank, Once Upon a Time in the West - Never seen it
2. Reverend Harry Powell, The Night of the Hunter - Good old greed + abuse of power
1. Darth Vader, Star Wars - Love made him do it.
Guard - "Lord Vader, that's your daughter, sir."
The next ten:
20. Count Dracula, Dracula - You are sexy food
19. HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey - Stupid humans + conflicting programming
18. General Zod, Superman II - Lazy + domineering
17. Gordon Gekko, Wall Street - Greedy bastard
16. Noah Cross, Chinatown - If you can't be with the one you love...
15. Freddy Krueger, A Nightmare on Elm Street - It's just all the crazies that raped his mother talkin'
14. Mrs. Iselin, The Manchurian Candidate - Mama knows best
13. Auric Goldfinger, Goldfinger - Greedy
12. The Terminator, The Terminator - Will not stop following mission priorities!
11. The Alien, Alien - Your abdomen makes a nice womb.
Eh...
Lettuce just skip to the top ten!
10. Leatherface, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre - Killing is fun
9. Dr. Mabuse, Dr. Mabuse: The Gambler - Sociopath
8. Norman Bates, Psycho - Protective instincts a wee keyed up
7. The Wicked Witch of the West, The Wizard of Oz - Excessively competitive
6. Frank Booth, Blue Velvet - Poly perversions
5. Michael Myers, Halloween - Nurture reinforced nature + slighted
4. Hannibal Lecter, The Silence of the Lambs - Sociopath
3. Frank, Once Upon a Time in the West - Never seen it
2. Reverend Harry Powell, The Night of the Hunter - Good old greed + abuse of power
1. Darth Vader, Star Wars - Love made him do it.
Guard - "Lord Vader, that's your daughter, sir."
The next ten:
20. Count Dracula, Dracula - You are sexy food
19. HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey - Stupid humans + conflicting programming
18. General Zod, Superman II - Lazy + domineering
17. Gordon Gekko, Wall Street - Greedy bastard
16. Noah Cross, Chinatown - If you can't be with the one you love...
15. Freddy Krueger, A Nightmare on Elm Street - It's just all the crazies that raped his mother talkin'
14. Mrs. Iselin, The Manchurian Candidate - Mama knows best
13. Auric Goldfinger, Goldfinger - Greedy
12. The Terminator, The Terminator - Will not stop following mission priorities!
11. The Alien, Alien - Your abdomen makes a nice womb.
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...There's no short supply of evil people in this world. On the "Antagonist" side, you can watch the news and today and probably discover someone more cruel and diabolical than you could ever contemplate with a keyboard. However, it's hard to find a really "Good Person". You have to be very creative in how you design a good person.
Motivation for evil people is a no brainer. You can have bad characters doing the most hideous things and people will believe them to be real based on what they see in the news. Have someone do the right thing? ...That's a hard character to create and have them be a believable character.
That being said...
I think much of the success of your "bad guy" character will hinge on the actor hired to play the role. You can drop Jack Nicholson into just about any "bad guy" role and he'll be a memorable character. On the flip side, Brad Wesley (played by Ben Gazarra) in "Roadhouse" was a pretty unremarkable bad guy. Short, chubby little rich fart (with an accent) that somehow is able to stand toe-to-toe with Patrick Swayze (a martial arts expert and bouncer trainer).
The other point is "Power". The more powerful your antagonist (controlling the situations) the more he will be memorable. "Darth Vader" wielded a lot of power. Kahn in "Star Trek". Gabriel Shear (Travolta) in "Swordfish". And then there's Hannibal Lecter from "Silence of The Lambs". Even when he was bound and locked inside a cage with guards all around ...he was still in control. ....It was just a matter of time.
Write your character into situations where s/he has the control. The more control they have, the more fun it is having your Protagonist finding interesting ways around the bad guy's control.
-Birdman
Guard - "Lord Vader, that's your daughter, sir."
Oh my dear god ray... hahaha.
If you want to go really old school...
Duke Mantee - "The Petrified Forest"
Tom Powers - "The Public Enemy"
Henry F Potter - "It's a Wonderful Life"
Liberty Valance - "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"
Phyllis Dietrichson - "Double Indemnity"
Duke Mantee - "The Petrified Forest"
Tom Powers - "The Public Enemy"
Henry F Potter - "It's a Wonderful Life"
Liberty Valance - "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"
Phyllis Dietrichson - "Double Indemnity"
wow...nobody has said it yet....ok here we go....
Moriarty!!!!
Intelligent, well connected, and completely unwilling to forgive.
Moriarty will go down in the bad mans world as the ultimate bad ass!!!
He has style.
Further he is not limited by anything. Whatever he wants to do he has the money and power to do.
Cunning beyond belief even his most basic plans for revenge are complex and hard to see coming.
Hes a big load of bad ass in a smaller body...which makes him seem quite ballsy when he's going eye to eye with Sherlock.
I like Sherlock, but watching this guy toy with him is "oh so much fun" so he is definite entertainment.
Moriarty!!!!
Intelligent, well connected, and completely unwilling to forgive.
Moriarty will go down in the bad mans world as the ultimate bad ass!!!
He has style.
Further he is not limited by anything. Whatever he wants to do he has the money and power to do.
Cunning beyond belief even his most basic plans for revenge are complex and hard to see coming.
Hes a big load of bad ass in a smaller body...which makes him seem quite ballsy when he's going eye to eye with Sherlock.
I like Sherlock, but watching this guy toy with him is "oh so much fun" so he is definite entertainment.
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Don't know if this will help but I'll post it. http://www.superheronation.com/2010/08/17/15-interesting-motivations-for-villains-and-heroes/
wow...nobody has said it yet....ok here we go....
Moriarty!!!!
Intelligent, well connected, and completely unwilling to forgive.
Moriarty will go down in the bad mans world as the ultimate bad ass!!!
He has style.
Further he is not limited by anything. Whatever he wants to do he has the money and power to do.
Cunning beyond belief even his most basic plans for revenge are complex and hard to see coming.
Hes a big load of bad ass in a smaller body...which makes him seem quite ballsy when he's going eye to eye with Sherlock.
I like Sherlock, but watching this guy toy with him is "oh so much fun" so he is definite entertainment.
Moriarty (in the TV show Sherlock) is an awful villain, from the writing through the acting. The fact that his 'powers' are unlimited make him utterly ridiculous. A very poor antagonist from what is ultimately a very poor show.
I disagree with you.
His powers are unlimited which makes him utterly formidable.
Think about it, for most other villains once you find their limits, you basically have them, with Moriarty, he will of course have limits but they are far from being touched. Meaning that beating him cannot be solved in an hour and a half feature film. This is why he is excellent, he is a true badass with unknown limits which means he owns all other bad asses.
As for the acting and writing, I like it, so thats another thing we disagree on
I would add, the Joker from the latest Batmans, also seems to have no limits...did you find him tiresome also?
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An antagonist doesn't necessarily have to be a villain. In romantic comedies, it could be the romantic competition, the family, even your own best friend or the object of affection herself.
It could be a slightly schizophrenic computer named HAL 9000, an annoying boss, etc.
The antagonist is a just tool to oppose the protagonist and create obstacles for him/her to overcome. He/she never changes but can help the protagonist realize some development.
That said, I'm surprised no one mentioned a popular villain like Loki in Thor/Avengers.
It could be a slightly schizophrenic computer named HAL 9000, an annoying boss, etc.
The antagonist is a just tool to oppose the protagonist and create obstacles for him/her to overcome. He/she never changes but can help the protagonist realize some development.
That said, I'm surprised no one mentioned a popular villain like Loki in Thor/Avengers.
A villain that is similar in some ways to the hero except the villain is willing to do things the hero has the capacity to do if they wanted to but they refuse to go down that path and have chosen a different more moral or ethical way of achieving their goals.
Indiana Jones and Rene Belloq
Batman and Joker
Indiana Jones and Rene Belloq
Batman and Joker
I disagree with you.
His powers are unlimited which makes him utterly formidable.
Think about it, for most other villains once you find their limits, you basically have them, with Moriarty, he will of course have limits but they are far from being touched. Meaning that beating him cannot be solved in an hour and a half feature film. This is why he is excellent, he is a true badass with unknown limits which means he owns all other bad asses.
As for the acting and writing, I like it, so thats another thing we disagree on
I would add, the Joker from the latest Batmans, also seems to have no limits...did you find him tiresome also?
He's basically written not as a human villain, but as some sort of robotic supercomputer of villainy. There is no antagonist motivation there at all, nothing to make you think "oh, that's why he's doing it". Sure, it means the writers can have a bit of fun, and the actor can ham it up to an extraordinary level of badness, but it doesn't make him a good character in any sense of the word. When writers write without setting themselves sensible limits (within the context of the universe they've created), the writing and characters become self-indulgent and flabby, which is precisely what 'Jim' Moriarty is: hammy circle jerk of a character. He's not badass, just bad.
I haven't seen a Batman film since the one where Batman wasn't taking Arnie to the cooler, but if the Joker character has a) no motivation for his actions and b) no limits to what he can achieve at any time, then yeah, he would be a badly written character too. I can't speak for the acting in this case, obviously.