Amateur Film Kit suggestions

A

Announce

Hello everyone,
I know this is likely a much asked question but I am looking to get into film making and obviously need to set up a basic kit to do so with. I have experience working in television, and am near finishing my degree in communications, so i'm hoping to get the necessary gear to teach myself the art.

my budget is about $1500, and although I love the look of the Sony NEX VG-10, im worried that even if I find one used I still will not be able to afford a good tri-pod and a second lens (35mm and 100mm ideally). I liked the idea that it provided some decent audio, and the ability to change lenses which many lower end camcorders dont seem to be capable of.

What camcorder would you advise if I was looking to afford a couple lenses and a tripod on $1500. This will primarily be for personal use, and am not yet looking at shooting a short film.

Thanks for any help,
Matt
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
t3i/600D (or similar) will run on that budget and of course you can change the lens. That's if you're comfortable using a DLSR for shooting. Then of course you need audio equipment, though the VG10 is really just a nice looking handycam so I doubt it's sound is anything special either.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Alcove Audio said:
It only records in a compressed audio format (AC3 / MPEG-4 AAC-LC). It also only uses a 1/8" minipin audio input; quite substandard.
Click to expand...

Ah i noticed it was Dolby 8 channel and assumed it was decent compared to other budget cameras.

I am familiar with working with DSLR are they comparable when it comes to video quality?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
So upon further investigation I have found that for what the VG-10 does good, which is merge the benefits of a DSLR and a Camcorder, it has many flaws, or shortcoming anyway. However I am not completely keen on working with DLSR because of its lack of point and shoot capabilities (audio).

Can anyone recommend a nice camcorder in my price range?

thanks
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Announce said:
I am familiar with working with DSLR are they comparable when it comes to video quality?
Click to expand...

See for yourself, My latest film on a DSLR 600D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJOsRWuEJg

This isn't mine but was shot ona 5D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdbaD8OOxfA

Sorry only just saw your question. Also the audio isn't terrible, but if you want anything of decent standard you'll have to go external. A Zoom h4n or similar.

If you want a point and shoot you can probably drop your budget and get a mid range Consumer Sony or Canon Handy cam / camcorder type thing. (But your sound won't be much if at all better)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Announce - if you want the "cinematic" shallow depth of field look that you see from DSLRs, a headphone jack, easy one handed shooting, unlimited video clip length and a built-in directional mic - you want a large sensor interchangeable lens camcorder. Yes, the VG10 did have challenges - but many of them were solved by its successor the NEX-VG20. I have shot with this camera, and it produces terrific images for the price.

I notice that you're in Canada, but Amazon US has the NEX-20 body on sale right now for $1098.

Here is what people are doing with this camera:

"Blonde Ambition" http://vimeo.com/48634282

"Visages de Nuit" http://vimeo.com/43708481

Check for more examples in the Vimeo NEX-VG20 User's Group.

That should leave room in your budget for a $120 Ravelli AVTP Professional Fluid Head Tripod, a $39 Ravelli dolly, and a $185 studio lighting/backdrop kit.

For lenses, I would start with a $94 used SLR Magic 28mm f2.8 for NEX mount and then buy a good Nikon lens adapter like this one - then go to eBay for inexpensive classic Nikkor glass.

When you get a little extra money in your budget, you should get the external recorder. I recommend the $180 Tascam DR-40 recorder and the $220 Azden SGM-2X Omni/cardioid mic.

I own and can vouch for everything on this list, except the camera, which I have rented and shot with - and the Azden mic, which is very highly reviewed.

I hope this is hepful in getting you started. Welcome to the world of digital cinema!

Bill
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
brunerww said:
Announce - if you want the "cinematic" shallow depth of field look that you see from DSLRs, a headphone jack, easy one handed shooting, unlimited video clip length and a built-in directional mic - you want a large sensor interchangeable lens camcorder. Yes, the VG10 did have challenges - but many of them were solved by its successor the NEX-VG20. I have shot with this camera, and it produces terrific images for the price.

I notice that you're in Canada, but Amazon US has the NEX-20 body on sale right now for $1098.

Here is what people are doing with this camera:

"Blonde Ambition" http://vimeo.com/48634282

"Visages de Nuit" http://vimeo.com/43708481

Check for more examples in the Vimeo NEX-VG20 User's Group.

That should leave room in your budget for a $120 Ravelli AVTP Professional Fluid Head Tripod, a $39 Ravelli dolly, and a $185 studio lighting/backdrop kit.

For lenses, I would start with a $94 used SLR Magic 28mm f2.8 for NEX mount and then buy a good Nikon lens adapter like this one - then go to eBay for inexpensive classic Nikkor glass.

When you get a little extra money in your budget, you should get the external recorder. I recommend the $180 Tascam DR-40 recorder and the $220 Azden SGM-2X Omni/cardioid mic.

I own and can vouch for everything on this list, except the camera, which I have rented and shot with - and the Azden mic, which is very highly reviewed.

I hope this is hepful in getting you started. Welcome to the world of digital cinema!

Bill
Click to expand...

Wow thats awesome thank you so much, and at 1081 thats the same price as a used VG-10 odd..... I going to do my shopping on black friday with fingers crossed for a sale price. I currently own two canon lenses (a 50mm and a Zoom lense) so may be able to pick up an adapter which would be awesome and save me some cash. The only other camcorder i've been looking at is the Canon XA10 but I would be forced to pick up a used one at the price.

Thanks again I was really impressed by the quality of the films you linked me especially how well small details like smoke was captured in "blonde ambition".

Unless anyone can steer me away from the VG-20 I suspect I will be investing in it in the next couple weeks.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I own a VG10 and cannot tell the difference in footage between a VG20 and a VG10. It needs a 28mm or 30mm lens to bring it up to speed and there you will have a fantastic tool.

Some of the 'challenges' of the VG10 were absolutely ridiculous. For example, some users found it absolutely impossible to avoid pushing down on the 'photograph' button during a shoot. Personally, I have done this only once and it is no biggie. Just don't push the button. Also, some users did not like the form. Well, it is one helluva lot easier to shoot steady than a DSLR if you are going handheld on your budget. Sure, once you have added some rails and a FF, there is no difference between a 5D and the VG10 but at your budget, the VG10 is a zillion times more stable handheld than a DSLR IMHO.

What you will end up with is a fantastic camera for the price which is heavily overlooked. Personally, I would avoid the stock lens which is OK and go for a prime straightaway.

In case you want to look at a short shot with the VG10, have a look at this: https://vimeo.com/49122325 - password cb1300. It is a mixture of 5D mkII with primes and the VG10 with a stock lens (now with a nice prime...) Sure, it is in 720 (the proper version is in 1080) because of Vimeo's compression but the VG10 stands up very well, particularly in the dance sequence.

Used prices are pretty good. Then a used Tascam DR100, NTG1 mic, boom, headphones, xlrs, used Manfrotto tripod, fluid head and you are looking at around $1500 USD as a package. Don't be afraid of used because a load of my kit is used and it all works perfectly. For example, I have a Manfrotto video tripod - a 745b which is fantastically stable and cost me $75 USD. Hell, I bought a Sony ECM674 for $75 USD on ebay and this is a good $500 USD new in the UK.

As a note, I am assuming you have a laptop. Personally, I would buy FCP X if price is an issue as it will get the job done.

I bought a VG10 new but given the option, I would buy used again without hesitation. Sure, today, I'd prefer a Nikkon 800 with a fantastic set of lenses (and by the way, the adaptor for Nikkor recommendation is an excellent idea) but a good, used VG10 is an excellent and relatively cheap instrument.

As a note, although the mic is better than, for example the mic on a 5D, it is not good unless you are in a tight spot. This has happened to me twice and then the mic became the best object in the universe. Sure, it's no replacement for the basics of film making which would be a good mic, boom, recorder etc... but every once in a while it has saved my butt.

Part of the reason a used VG10 is relatively cheap is because it is unfashionable with most gearheads aiming at DSLRs (think Canon 5d Mk II as a comparison) and has been superseded by the VG20. However, judge for yourself - you can see the footage and work out if it is worth the money. I think it is.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks a lot gorillaonabike,
I had a look at your film, and i'm assuming the action and outdoor shots were primarily with the VG-10? I noticed in my research that the VG-10 does really well outdoors and with action shots but really is subpar at indoor profile filming. I've been contacting the seller of the VG-20 for 1,100 to see if they can ship to Canada for that price, but so far little luck, so I may have to fall back on a VG-10 for budget reasons anyway. One of my major concerns with all the audio gear is that its a lot to carry around, so the Zoom mic looked fairly appealing. As part of my uni program I luckily have access to FC pro, for the next year anyway.

With lenses is there any reason Nikon stands out as better then the sony NEX or Alpha lenses?

Thanks again for all your help!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Announce - gorrillaonabike is right, the VG10 is an often-overlooked camera - and it can certainly produce great images (see "The Castle" [NSFW] and "Making of The Castle") - but the placement of the still image shutter button was not its only challenge.

If you get one, you should know it also lacks manual audio gain control, as well as 60p and true 24p frame rates. (all features added to the VG20).

Re: - your question on classic Nikon (and Canon FD) lenses - people like them because they are generally less expensive than new system lenses. If you shop a little, you can get a 50mm f1.8 from ebay.ca for less than $100 CDN: http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Nikon+50mm+f1.8&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I certainly hope you can find a way to get the VG20 shipped to you!

Cheers,

Bill
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
TheArtist said:
I would go with what gorrila said for everything except for the camera. I would hit the DSLR road.

There is a sale on the GH2 which leaves you plenty of money to get some sound equipment.

Check what the GH2 can produce when hacked :

https://vimeo.com/44625641
https://vimeo.com/42980469
Click to expand...


I absolutely love my GH2 - and it certainly beats the VG20 on price and susceptibility to moire - (especially with today's sale at Amazon) - but the lack of 60p and a headphone jack are real challenges. That's why I have a GH3 on order. But Announce asked for advice on camcorders, so that's what I recommended.

Cheers,

Bill
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
TheArtist said:
I would go with what gorrila said for everything except for the camera. I would hit the DSLR road.

There is a sale on the GH2 which leaves you plenty of money to get some sound equipment.

Check what the GH2 can produce when hacked :

https://vimeo.com/44625641
https://vimeo.com/42980469
Click to expand...

I've spent maybe the last hour looking at GH2 and VG20 films and I have to say im blown away by the difference. While I am slightly turned off by the idea of shooting with a DSLR, the fact seems that by the price difference I would be able to afford a Glidecam and audio set to make up for its lacking capabilities. I have lots of consideration to do and intend to continue looking at videos, if anyone has some more VG20 films id be happy to have a look.

I think its the autofocus on the VG20 thats driving me nuts it keeps popping in and out
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
brunerww said:
If you get one, you should know it also lacks manual audio gain control, as well as 60p and true 24p frame rates. (all features added to the VG20).
Click to expand...

Oops! I always forget about the frame rates - good point Bill. If you go for a VG10 you have to ensure you can deal with frame rates. I always forget about it because with FCP 7 and an editor at my disposal with Avid, I don't even think about this any more as I'm so used to dealing with it (end of feeble excuse...)

Also, I'm never concerned about the audio because the only times I have used the inbuilt mics were for 'desperation' purposes as they're terrible compared to a proper audio setup.

However, don't be blown away by the difference in quality.

What makes a difference in image quality indoors is good lighting (soooo important), fast glass, strong shot composition and good kit around you (tripod, fluid head, steadicam). I have a little set of redcaps although on Sunday, the talent (music vid) hired a complete lighting kit and a studio as she wanted it to work well. Also, pizza and beers afterwards!

One of the guys turned up with a Nikon 800 and a $2,000 USD lens on Sunday. It is awesome, awesome, awesome with the right lens and I had to relegate my camera to 2nd (3rd was a 550d). No moire, aliasing, low light sensitivity of an owl and shoots beautifully. It made my VG10 look like a potato cam. It's an amazing piece of kit.

However, for the budget, that would be my suggestion if you can deal with frame rates in post. Otherwise, DSLRs are fine but it isn't simply the camera, it's all the stuff around it. This is the benefit of the VG10 - it's a forgotten cam meaning you get more bang for your buck and more cash to splash on a nice prime, sound and the other kit you need.

If you can't deal with frame rates then go VG20 or DSLR.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Announce said:
Thanks a lot gorillaonabike,
I had a look at your film, and i'm assuming the action and outdoor shots were primarily with the VG-10? I noticed in my research that the VG-10 does really well outdoors and with action shots but really is subpar at indoor profile filming.

Thanks again for all your help!
Click to expand...

The VG10 was used both indoors and outdoors. The point is once the footage has been graded (badly me me), no-one can tell the difference. It was used as a second camera in most circumstances just for cutaways but a first camera in others and is OK. And that's the point... we could shoot interchangeably with a 5D and VG10.

However, bear in mind the package is what makes the shot. Lighting, glass, composition and sundries (tripod etc...) Oh yeah, and that little thing called operator skill which mostly I don't have...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
To start off thank you all for helping me through this decision process so far.

My next question is for all those Canadian filmakers out there.... Where can I find a GH2 seller? I have looked at the websites of all my local camera shops and can't seem to find anything, unless it is absurdly priced (1300). As a result I have been looking at the T4i as an alternative as it is on sale for $650 body only. Is this a comparable camera? everything I have seen looks good.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Rebel series is better in low light in Dynamic Range compared to GH2.

When hacked, GH2 blows every other DSLR on the planet in terms of resolution (5D MkII included).

Any Rebel model starting from T2i is a solid choice to start with.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
TheArtist said:
Rebel series is better in low light in Dynamic Range compared to GH2.

When hacked, GH2 blows every other DSLR on the planet in terms of resolution (5D MkII included).

Any Rebel model starting from T2i is a solid choice to start with.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with everything TheArtist says. Especially that the hacked GH2 blows away every other DSLR (and Sony DSLT and NEX) on the planet.

Here is a GH2 body for $835.51 CDN at amazon.ca. 10 left in stock. Free shipping to Canadian addresses.

Cheers,

Bill
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brunerww said:
I'll agree with everything TheArtist says. Especially that the hacked GH2 blows away every other DSLR (and Sony DSLT and NEX) on the planet.

Here is a GH2 body for $835.51 CDN at amazon.ca. 10 left in stock. Free shipping to Canadian addresses.

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

Thanks,
I don't know why on earth no canadian outlet has them, its so bizaare because they have accessories just not the camera. That is $200 more then the T4i so I am going to do some comparing on video quality but I think im sold.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top