A quick question about condenser mics (cheap ones, especially)

[Pete]

I'm starting to look seriously into getting some beginner audio equipment for voice-over, singing vocals, basic foley, and possibly some instrumental recordings. My first purchase (I imagine) will be a digital recorder (either a DR-100 or H4n). From there I plan on getting a decent shotgun mic.

I was also thinking about a large-diaphragm condenser mic (like the kind that you see everyone doing voice-overs or singing into in a studio). The thing is, I don't want to spend very much money if I were to get one of these, at least initially. I saw this one for ~$60 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...hnica_AT2020_AT2020_Condenser_Microphone.html), a few more on B&H for ~100, and I also found a few on ebay in that range as well.

Is a large-diaphragm condenser mic even worth looking at in the sub-$100 range? Or would the on-board mics in either the H4n or DR-100 do a better job with voice-over, music (vocals), or basic foley? For that matter, if the mics from a digital recorder would be a better choice, which one's mic are best for that kind of thing?

As always, I appreciate any thoughts, insight, or suggestions on the matter.
Thanks!

 

[PaulGriffith]

On-board mics on the H4n are garbage. My iPhone recorder sounds better.

Just curious, with all the applications you listed (Except maybe Foley) why you're going a shotgun mic/recorder route. Are you going to boom for films too?

Recording vocals (singing and VO), Foley and instrumentation is all done 99% of the time in a studio going straight into a computer. Also, with the exception of some Foley that's trying to match a production mic, Shotgun mics aren't really used for that. The only hogs the audio guys I know use shotgun mics for outside of film an video work are for crowd mics.

With all that in mind, unless you're doing production audio on a set, you'd probably be better off skipping the recorder and shotgun and spending the money on a mic (condenser or otherwise) and computer interface setup.

 

[Pete]

Well, I plan on getting a decent shotgun mic for films anyway (~$300 range). But I was asking about a cheap large-diaphragm condenser in addition to that, if it would be worth it for various vocal applications (forget about the foley).

If not, what is the cheapest I could go when looking for one? Even the $100 large-diaphragms have good reviews on B&H. That's why I'm a little confused.

Thanks for the response!

EDIT: The reason I thought I needed one of the recorders was because these mics seem to all have XLR-outputs, and my computer doesn't have an XLR input. But would it be a big hit on quality if I used a XLR-3.5mm converter? That just came to my head, and would certainly be cheaper than buying a recorder initially.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Production sound recording, Foley and VO - and singing - are all very different tasks, requiring very different tools. Yes, there are mics that do a solid all-around job, but they will be better are some things than others. This is why production sound mixers, audio post engineers (like yours truly) and music recording engineers (which I have also done) have a number of different mics.

And, truly, some mics do very well at jobs for which they were not originally intended. For instance, the Sennheiser MKH-416 shotgun is a popular mic for VO work as well as a widely used production sound mic. The thing to keep in mind, however, is that it takes very precise mic technique to use an MKH-416 for VO. Shotguns are also used for Foley work, but only on true Foley stages, and, again, require a great degree of technique. I sometimes use my TLM-103 for Foley work, but have other mics in my mic "closet" (really a large case) to choose from depending upon what I'm recording.

If not, what is the cheapest I could go when looking for one? Even the $100 large-diaphragms have good reviews on B&H. That's why I'm a little confused.

When to comes to bargain mics you get what you pay for. Keep in mind that the folks reviewing those mics have probably never used an LDC (Large Diaphragm Condenser) before, so even a cheap LDC will probably sound much better than whatever they were using previously. For under $100 the AT2020 sounds okay, but compared to LDCs like the $3,000 Neumann U87, or even a $1,000 TLM-103 you will definitely hear a marked difference. All of that said, the AT2020 isn't a bad mic for the price. LDCs are good for both singing and VO.

If you don't have XLR connectivity to your computer a USB mic may be an option. In the under $200 range the Blue Snowball is quite popular (Blue makes some killer mics), and Audio Technica makes a USB version of the AT2020.

The reason I thought I needed one of the recorders was because these mics seem to all have XLR-outputs, and my computer doesn't have an XLR input. But would it be a big hit on quality if I used a XLR-3.5mm converter? That just came to my head, and would certainly be cheaper than buying a recorder initially.

You may want to consider a decent audio interface for you computer. This will allow for a lot more connectivity. Besides having XLR inputs it's also better for connecting speakers and other audio devices, plus some have a few manual controls which allow better access and, well, better control. I much prefer firewire interfaces over USB. Focusrite, Lexicon, TC Electronic and PreSonus all make some decent firewire boxes in the under $300 range.


EDIT - BTW, condenser mics require phantom power, so you would need a mic that has it's phantom power supplied via battery (that seriously limits your selection) or a separate phantom power supply if you don't want to spring for an audio interface.

 

[Aaron M]

What he said - with an emphasis on a decent audio interface. In my experience, at that level of upgrades, you might even opt for the interface first. Might make a more noticeable difference in the quality of sound you're getting.

 

[Pete]

Okay, thanks a ton for the tips! I didn't really know what the "power requirements" section meant with the XLR-mics before, so I will definitely be going with a USB mic (probably the Blue Yeti).

As for an actual audio interface, I will definitely look into one in the future, but right now it probably isn't worth it (especially if I can just use a USB). I will be upgrading computer hardware (and hopefully software) within a year, so I'll assess my needs for an interface at that time. But for right now, I'm going for "cheap and workable," more to test the waters than anything else and to see if I will need to buy anything better in the future.

I really appreciate the helpful information. If you have any other tips or relevant information on using these mics (can you tell I'm a complete audio noob?), or if you have a better suggestion than the Blue Yeti, I'm all ears. Thanks again!

 

[Alcove Audio]

Just remember that many USB mics are not backwards compatible - in other words, once you get an audio interface the USB mic will not be able to plug into the XLR inputs of the interface, so you will have to replace the mic.

 

[rocksure]

If you are keen on a Large D condensor mic for general purpose use including voice over, and could stretch your budget a bit further, consider the Rode NT1A. However, a lot of voice over can be done with dynamic mics too. Very popular, but a bit expensive, are the Shure sm7B or the Electrovoice RE20. You could get away with a well EQ'ed sm57 or sm58 at a pinch also.

 

[Pete]

Just remember that many USB mics are not backwards compatible - in other words, once you get an audio interface the USB mic will not be able to plug into the XLR inputs of the interface, so you will have to replace the mic.

...Which is why, for the moment, I just want a cheap mic that I won't feel bad about replacing. When I have a real budget and need for more, I will definitely go to everyone's suggestions here. It looks like there are quite a few more options in the $300-400 range or higher.

Thanks everybody!

 

[Alcove Audio]

You were willing to spend on a recorder and a mic, why not get an interface and a mic? The cost will be about the same.

My personal philosophy is to build upon a solid foundation. Why get something that won't have any resale value or further usage later on? The idea is to keep adding to your arsenal. I still have mics from 30+ years ago.

A passable interface and a cheap mic are good for a start. A decent interface will serve as your audio "hub" and allow you more choices in the future. For instance, when you have the budget for a better mic your original mic becomes a backup or even a second mic, and you won't have to get an interface at the same time you upgrade your mic. When you decide to get better speakers you'll have a much wider selection if you already have an interface. Think of it as getting the camera body and adding lenses as you go.

Just some advice from your crotchety old Uncle Bob.