$1800 for Indie Films

mckinise

mckinise

I am in the market for a quality video camera. I am looking for the best image and sound quality that I can find for around $1,800. I don't care about photography at all. I will not be using it to shoot photos. I am only interested in finding the highest quality camera that I can afford.

I will be using the camera/camcorder for independent films. I need image and audio fidelity as close to pro quality as possible.

What I need:

Camera Brand:
Camera Model:
Recommended Lenses:
Recommended Accessories:

Any help will be appreciated. Any pointers will be taken into consideration.
 
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Well....
You could go lower end of last generation dedicated video cameras (somebody will be better than me on specific models) which, if you were patient and waited for the right deal, you could maybe snag in that range. It would be somewhat complete in the sense of decent built in audio, ND filters, all the basic stuff you'd need to film .
Or...
You could go DSLR (probably again lower end like the T2i) and spend the other $1000 to $1200 on lenses and an audio solution.

Either way you'll be doing a lot of stuff DIY if that's your entire budget because that doesn't include lights, a tripod, etc...
 
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http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=37249



The most important part if no budget indie filmmaking equipment is simply getting the audio off the [expletive] camera.


And FWIW, I hope you're not planning on any festival acceptances and Lionsgate film distribution offers for what you're going to get off this caliber of of equipment.
Maybe you could make a Doritos Super Bowl entry, a few PopTent spots, and a start a youtube channel with this.
 
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mckinise said:
I am looking for the best image and sound quality that I can find
Click to expand...
You are aware that the video camera is not what gets you
the "best" sound. That comes from the "best" microphone.
Are you considering a mic in your price, or just the camera?

So I can offer some workable numbers for you I would need
to know. $1,800 for just the camera or $1,800 total for
camera, mic, lenses, accessories and camera support?
 
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1800 for the camera and maybe a basic lens set. I have more money for the accessories. As far as film fests and distribution deals. I am doing 48 hour films and putting a web series on youtube/vimeo. I have a concept deal in place with a indie production house for right of first refusal for anything I shoot. If the quality is high enough they will just do a direct to video type thing. If not, they will probably re-cast and re-shoot.

I would like to avoid the re-shooting if possible. Therefore, I need the highest quality I can get.

I would say 1800 for camera with an extra 1000 for accessories and other hardware. I already have lighting, reflector panels, basic editing software (Camtasia).

Audiowise, I am open to suggestions as well.
 
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mckinise said:
I have a concept deal in place with a indie production house for right of first refusal for anything I shoot. If the quality is high enough they will just do a direct to video type thing. If not, they will probably re-cast and re-shoot.
Click to expand...
Ask them what equipment their current content providers are using and see if you can approximate the quality they are accustomed to seeing and hearing.
 
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directorik said:
You are aware that the video camera is not what gets you
the "best" sound. That comes from the "best" microphone.
Are you considering a mic in your price, or just the camera?

So I can offer some workable numbers for you I would need
to know. $1,800 for just the camera or $1,800 total for
camera, mic, lenses, accessories and camera support?
Click to expand...

The $1,800 is what I have for the Camera. I have another $1,000 for everything else. Now, I could technically just combine the two, get the best camera that I can afford right now and try to raise enough for the accessories, but that would be cutting it close as we begin shooting mid July.
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
Well....
You could go lower end of last generation dedicated video cameras (somebody will be better than me on specific models) which, if you were patient and waited for the right deal, you could maybe snag in that range. It would be somewhat complete in the sense of decent built in audio, ND filters, all the basic stuff you'd need to film .
Or...
You could go DSLR (probably again lower end like the T2i) and spend the other $1000 to $1200 on lenses and an audio solution.

Either way you'll be doing a lot of stuff DIY if that's your entire budget because that doesn't include lights, a tripod, etc...
Click to expand...

I have lights, a couple decent tripods, and a lot of other visual equipment. I just don't have my own camera. I am mainly needing good visual quality and a way to record decent sound. I don't mind cleaning both up a bit in post, but I want to do as much as possible before that.
 
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"Sound is half of the experience."​

The one thing that most indie filmmakers screw up is the sound. They're so damned excited once the camera is in their hands they forget that story telling is about the interaction of the characters with each other; that interaction is primarily DIALOG, and, if no one never bothered to tell you, dialog is comprised of sounds, you know, the characters talking to each other.

So audio gear is not "an accessory." Production sound gear is an intrinsic part of the filmmaking process and should be treated as an equal, if not more, important part of the filmmaking process by beginning filmmakers. Always keep in mind that poor sound is the FIRST technical aspect that keeps otherwise good projects out of festivals. Bad sound will turn off an audience faster than any other technical aspect. The audience - whether they are judges or the general public - won't give a damn how pretty the pictures are if they can't understand the dialog.

You can put together a basic prosumer production sound kit for about $1,100.

Shotgun Kit ($590)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

Cardioid Mic ($160) (It should be a hypercardioid, but decent hypers start at $500+)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359043-REG/sE_Electronics_SE1A_SE1A_Small_Diaphragm.html

Recorder ($200) (You should add a mixer ASAP)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821259-REG/Tascam_DR_40_DR_40_4_Track_Handheld_Digital.html

Battery Packs ($75 = $25 X 3)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/826148-REG/Tascam_BP_6AA_BP_6AA_External_Battery_Pack.html

XLR cables ($50 = $25 X 2)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/128680-REG/Pro_Co_Sound_M_25_MasterMike_XLR_Male_to.html


If you really want to do sound right you hire a professional, or at least hook up with an ambitious up-and-comer. There should always be someone on the set whose only job is the production audio.
 
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mckinise - at your price point, I would get a Panasonic GH2 ($749) and hack it (free). Here is what it can do (2 trailers from the indie film "Mandorla", now in post. Trailer to be shown at Cannes - both trailers shot with anamorphic lenses - first trailer unhacked, second trailer hacked):

https://vimeo.com/31375483
https://vimeo.com/40844162

If you want a softer look and don't mind a 12 minute shot duration limit, you should get one of the Canon DSLRs - as Gonzo suggested, the low end T2i ($564) or T3i ($619) will do just fine. The T2i can produce images like this:

https://vimeo.com/32655795

Since you already have lighting, a tripod, and you have gotten good advice on audio - the price point for these cameras will allow you to add a few lenses and some way to move the camera smoothly like an inexpensive dolly ($33) or slider ($99).

If I would could only get one lens for the Panasonic, it would be the Olympus 11-22 f2.8-3.5 for $799 with a DMW-MA1 adapter ($111).

For the Canons, I would get the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 for $699.

Hope this is helpful - and please post a link to your films when they're done!

Bill
 
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@brunerww

I really appreciate your post here and am going to follow your advice.

In summary -- I have now purchased the T2i and the Tokina 11-16 f2.8. I am looking to shoot things that look like the link you have listed (The Camera specifically).

1 Question --

What would you recommend as like a starter pack of sorts to accompany this package so I can start making short films. Obviously some type of Audio package is needed. I have a friend who has a Sound Studio with a full Pro Tools for the mix but I have to get a solid Audio Track on board first before I can take advantage of that.

I have looked into the dolly as you mentioned as well. And will also need a light starter kit. Is there also a resource out there on essentially "How to get the most out of my T2i"?

Your posts and blog have been very helpful so I am eager to pick your brain further if you are so inclined.

Thanks in advance!
Aaron

aaron@paperstreetpictures.com
 
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Thanks for the kind words, Aaron. Glad to hear that I've been able to help. Hope that I can be just as helpful with your follow-on questions. Since you have some lights and a tripod, you're right - the next step is to think about audio. On my A cam, I use the Tascam DR-40 recorder and a couple of VHF wireless mics (one Azden, one Audio Technica - if I had it to do over again, I'd buy two Azdens). On my B cam, I use a Zoom H1. In both cases, I pipe the output of the recorder into the camera with a Sescom cable (LN2MIC-ZOOMH4N for the Zoom and LN2MIC-TASD100 for the Tascam). That way, I have plenty to work with - in camera tracks on both cameras and 24 bit/96kHZ tracks on the recorders. Here are a couple of pictures:

S1010003.JPG


S1010004.JPG


Most people would be concerned with static from the VHF mics, but UHF is too expensive for me, and I am usually very close to my subjects and haven't had any problems.

I personally like wireless better than shotguns or booms because of the "presence" provided by getting the mic so close to the talent.

Once you get your sound set-up, you'll have a camera, a good lens, a couple of tripods, a recorder, a couple of mics, some lights (some editing software?) and, hopefully, lots of good ideas. I suggest you take what you have at that point, read this post, plan carefully, and go out and shoot something!

Once you've done that, I don't think you'll need any more advice - you'll be the one giving it :-)

Good luck,

Bill

P.S. - as Ken Simpson suggests, visual effects are an independent filmmaker's friend. I have a little green screen studio that I'm learning to use. I highly recommend you invest a few dollars in a green screen package when you can.

P.P.S. - For Canon shooters, I recommend following Dave Dugdale at "Learning DSLR Video". His tutorials will help you get the most out of the T2i.
 
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mckinise said:
I am leaning toward the GH2 and upgraded audio. Also looked at a couple prosumer cams. How do these compare to the T3i and GH2?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/733533-REG/Canon_4888B001_XF100_HD_Professional_Camcorder.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749467-REG/Canon_4922B002_XA10_HD_Professional_Camcorder.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...AG_HMC40PJU_AG_HMC40_AVCCAM_HD_Camcorder.html
Click to expand...

You'll lose the flexibility of interchangeable lenses and control over depth of field (and still image quality, if you care about that - which, as I recall, you didn't ;-)).

You'll gain pro quality sound in-camera, zero moire (advantage over the T3i), unlimited video clip length (advantage over the T3i), bulletproof autofocus (T3i has no autofocus), power zoom, higher stock bitrate (with the XF100), true 60p (with the XF100) and several ergonomic advantages (e.g, a top handle).

They're also more expensive than the T3i/GH2 - even after you add in a 24-bit/96kHz sound recorder.

Are you thinking seriously about going over the $1800 budget number in the title of the thread?

Bill
 
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Thinking? Yes. Afford to? No. One day maybe. I was hoping to augment my budget with a kickstarter project, but that is 100% not going to pan out. I have a $500 fundraiser with 18 days and zero pledges. It is completely out of pocket for this venture.
 
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