How to solve image breakdown

I'm having a difficult time trying to get rid of compression artefacts, specifically in the shadow area.

Examples can be found below,

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kqtkgebqrik7j6k/AAAh2tbVJ93beWNg0HNQIgMua?dl=0

I was wondering what can be done to solve this?

For context:
the raw footage was shot on a Canon 60D at 720p and 60fps (conformed to 24fps) with VisionColor set as a picture profile, and colour graded in FilmConvert (standalone version). This is the "Original."

I brought the "Original" to Final Cut Express and exported it with these settings (for experimentation): h.264/1080p/180,000kbps. This is the "Exported."
 
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From what I can tell, this is a case of garbage in = garbage. I assume the codec was h.264 to start with? It's also a possibility of poor workflow. That being said, I have zero clue with FCP.

180,000kbps

Typo?

180mbps is rather high. Seems like overkill for this.
 
From what I can tell, this is a case of garbage in = garbage. I assume the codec was h.264 to start with? It's also a possibility of poor workflow. That being said, I have zero clue with FCP.



Typo?

180mbps is rather high. Seems like overkill for this.

It was recorded in h.364 yes.

My workflow is: colour grade clips in FilmConvert (standalone) and export. Then bring colour graded clips to Final Cut Express, edit and export.

Not a typo. It's kbps in Final Cut Express - and probably Final Cut Pro too.
 
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Why in the world would you set your camera to 720 P at 60 fps, then convert to 24 fps instead of setting the camera to 25 fps and working in 25 fps for 720 p? 24 fps is for shooting in 1080 p.

I have found that when the fps is screwed up like that, the whole project can get unstable and messed up. You need to work with the standard setting instead of working with unconventional ones. With your footage stable from the right settings, everything works out better.
 
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If you are looking to do speed effects by setting the camera to 60 fps, these days, it is easier to do them in post with software. Both Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas allow you to change the frame rate to speed up or slow down a section of footage for an action scene. There must be a way to do it with FCP X too. I used the original Final Cut years ago on my Imac DV. That was a good 15 years ago doing the days of DV. So, I am sure a lot has changed. But, I am sure you can adjust the frame rate for aaction scenes with FCP X just like their competitors software.
 
the raw footage was shot on a Canon 60D at 720p and 60fps (conformed to 24fps) with VisionColor set as a picture profile, and colour graded in FilmConvert (standalone version). This is the "Original."

... and exported it with these settings (for experimentation): h.264/1080p/180,000kbps. This is the "Exported."

As a general rule, never convert frame rates. Shoot and edit in the frame rate that you're distributing to. The only exception to this is: 1. Obviously if you have to distribute to different platforms requiring different frame rates or 2. Shooting at a higher frame rate for the purpose of a slow motion effect.

Failure to follow this general rule is not only likely to cause image artefacts but also cause other severe workflow problems. Additionally, look into the codecs you are using. H.264 is a good distribution codec but not so good for most editing/processing tasks. Look into intermediate codecs (Prores and the Avid codecs) which are specifically designed for editing/processing.

Why in the world would you set your camera to 720 P at 60 fps, then convert to 24 fps instead of setting the camera to 25 fps and working in 25 fps for 720 p? 24 fps is for shooting in 1080 p.

I agree with your basic premise although some of your details are shakey! For example, 24fps is generally for 2k (or 4k) material destined for theatrical screening/distribution, not for 1080p! 1080p does support 24fps but most commonly it's 23.976fps or sometimes 25fps and most DSLRs can't record 1080p at 24fps.

If one is serious about filmmaking, it's worth learning about frame rates, field rates and exactly what camera manufacturers mean by terms such as 24p, 25p, 30p and 60p. I've seen huge problems in post production because of ignorance in this area and even on one or two occasions films which had to be shelved!

G
 
Here is a tutorial for setting up the Canon 60D for video. I have the same camera and find this tutorial very useful.

There is a way to go into setting up the camera for PAL setting that are being overlooked by the poster who will find this tutorial very useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jXAYt1BVqM
 
If you are looking to do speed effects by setting the camera to 60 fps, these days, it is easier to do them in post with software...................

I disagree.
If the camera records a good codec at higher framerates, shooting at higher framerates will always look better than software slowmo. Because software doesn't always understand the movement.

Having said that: the codec in a 60D isn't the best around, but it could be worse... :P
 
I disagree.
If the camera records a good codec at higher framerates, shooting at higher framerates will always look better than software slowmo. Because software doesn't always understand the movement.

Having said that: the codec in a 60D isn't the best around, but it could be worse... :P

As long as you don't try to slow down the 60 fps in post to 24 fps. Then, it should work out.
 
As long as you don't try to slow down the 60 fps in post to 24 fps. Then, it should work out.

Well, that is actually the simplest slowdown you can do: tell the NLE to interpret the 60fps files as 24 fps.
Done.
No rendering needed, because all the frames are already there.

I do such things all the time: shoot at 60fps or 150fps, interpret as 25fps (I'm in Europe).
Easy.
 
The above few posts demonstrate exactly why it's so important to learn about frame rates!!

APE, I have the camera in front of me and follow the tutorial and get it to work by following the examples. And, it works out. I think of it like learning math. We have to do it as we study it to learn it.

Then why haven't you learnt it??
The 60D is not capable of any of the frame rates listed in the NTSC settings page! As far as I'm aware, it can't record at 30fps, 24fps or 60fps. Instead it records at 29.97fps, 23.976fps and 59.94fps respectively! On the PAL page it lists 25fps, 24fps and 50fps. It does actually record 25fps and 50fps but again, 24fps is actually 23.976fps. Not knowing and fully understanding the implications of this will bite you in the a$$ one day!

G
 
The above few posts demonstrate exactly why it's so important to learn about frame rates!!

...........
The 60D is not capable of any of the frame rates listed in the NTSC settings page! As far as I'm aware, it can't record at 30fps, 24fps or 60fps. Instead it records at 29.97fps, 23.976fps and 59.94fps respectively! On the PAL page it lists 25fps, 24fps and 50fps. It does actually record 25fps and 50fps but again, 24fps is actually 23.976fps. Not knowing and fully understanding the implications of this will bite you in the a$$ one day!

G

It is indeed very important to know about framerates.
NTSC framerates are actually 29.97fps, 23.976fps and 59.94fps. It was once 30fps before they added color to the signal halfway the 20th century (while PAL managed to stay 25fps). 23.967 is originally a 2:3 pulldown signal of the 60 NTSC-fields to come as close as possible to the 24fps of cinema. And 59.94fps is just the refreshrate of the upper and lower fields turned into a progressive format of whole frames. So yes, the 60D can record NTSC framerates.

Having said that: whatever framerate you use, make sure not to mix them up in the process, because that will indeed bite you...

Anyway, this framerate discussion is a bit off topic :P
And my little discussion with Modern Myth was more about how to achieve slowmotion than about framerate standards.
 
I've gotten the camera to work at 1080 P 24 fps. That is what I set the camera to work at.

No you haven't! Unless there is some sort of hack available, the 60D is not capable of 24fps. When you choose 24fps what you actually get is 23.976fps.

23.967 is originally a 2:3 pulldown signal of the 60 NTSC-fields to come as close as possible to the 24fps of cinema. And 59.94fps is just the refreshrate of the upper and lower fields turned into a progressive format of whole frames.

This is certainly one area where it can get confusing. When you're talking about 60 NTSC-fields I take it you actually mean 59.94 fields per second? In which case we're talking about 1080i rather than 1080p. Furthermore, the relationship between the NTSC video rates and actual 24fps is one that can cause severe problems. There is of course no such thing as 0.976 of a frame (or 0.94 of a field). The NTSC video rate of 24fps is 24 full frames but not per second, the video is actually slowed down, resulting in the actual frame rate of 23.976 frames per second. In other words 1 second of NTSC video time does not equal 1 second of actual time. If the last frame of your film is 00:16:40:00, the actual duration of your film is 16 minutes and 41 seconds!

Anyway, this framerate discussion is a bit off topic :P

How so? The OP was talking about conforming to 24fps. Was he actually talking about 24fps (or 60fps) though?

G
 
My phrasing was off:
instead of 60 fields I meant the even and uneven fields in approx. 1 second.
Meaning that 59,94fps is based on frequency of the NTSC 60i signal and often used for 720p recordings.
1080i is always a bad idea, no matter what framerate.
Interlaced is outdated.

While 0.971 of a frame does not exist. 1.005633 seconds do exist, so it can be recorded like that.
However: I hardly have to deal with NTSC: I never had to shoot it, so I can't tell whether it slows everything down.
I guess that is only the case when 24fps is converted.
When a camera is recording 23.97fps it is probably just doing that, otherwise the sound would always lose sync in camera.
 
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.................

How so? The OP was talking about conforming to 24fps. Was he actually talking about 24fps (or 60fps) though?

G

Because interpreting 60fps as 24fps didn't create artefacts.
The codec did.
However: 60fps at the same bitrate as 24fps will (in theory always) result in a higher compression.
The higher the compression the more artifacts will become visible.
 
I've done slow motion and speed up effects in post. In action scenes, I find speeding up the footage makes certain parts of fight scenes look more convincing.

I've also seen what happens when 30 fps footage is mixed up on the same timeline with 23.97 fps. The whole project can become messy and unstable. As you say WalterB, Keep it consistent. Also, doing slow motion and speed up effects yields different results with 30 fps footage as opposed to 23.97 footage because of the different frame rate. More can vanish with 23.97 fps when things are sped up than when the frame rate is 30 fps.
 
1080i is always a bad idea, no matter what framerate. Interlaced is outdated.

Hardly, virtually all HDTV broadcast in Europe and North America is at 1080i (50 or 59.94 fields per sec).

However: I hardly have to deal with NTSC.

But most people do, because 23.976fps is the standard frame rate for BluRay (North America and Europe) and for most online 1080p content.

When a camera is recording 23.97fps it is probably just doing that, otherwise the sound would always lose sync in camera.

Yes they do record at 23.976ps, that's the problem! Many/most DSLRs list 24fps but are actually recording 23.976fps. This will cause problems (and sound sync problems) when converting to 24fps.

I've also seen what happens when 30 fps footage is mixed up on the same timeline with 23.97 fps.

I don't think I've never seen 30fps footage, I didn't even know there were any cameras out there capable of 30fps.

G
 
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