I've got a few beginnner audio questions.

[IhateMyjob]

Hey guys, got a few questions. (I'm sorry if some of them seem stupid)

First off, when you're recording audio to a separate recorder, and, say you film all day, then go home to off load, assuming you're not using timecode, when you off load all your video and audio files, how do you know which audio file goes with which video files... I know I've seen behind the scenes stuff from movies where all the info is on the slate, and said out loud before the director says action, but are there other ways to do this?

Second, I know that Pro Tools is industry standard for pretty much anything audio oriented, but my question, are there other DAWs that are useable to obtain professional results? (For instance, I currently use Ableton Live for audio production).... Basic question boils down to, if I'm serious about specializing in the audio side of filmmaking, do I need to learn Pro Tools?

Lastly, I've been researching around trying to put together a consumer/prosumer audio set up to start working with, and what I've found is as follows.

Shotgun mic-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/747422-REG/rode__ntg_2_complete_shotgun_microphone.html

Hypercardioid mic-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867157-REG/avantone_pro_ck1_ck_1_small_capsule_fet_pencil.html

Recorder-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/967366-REG/zoom_h6_handy_recorder_with.html

Headphones-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._d40fs_professional_enhanced_bass_studio.html


Are there any items on this list that jump out as poor choices?

Also, I've looked at field mixers on BH, and I'm questioning whether I need one with the H6 just starting out... I know Sound Devices makes high quality mixers with super quiet pre's however, as of now, they are out of my price range, and I suspect a lot of the lower price mixers are more geared towards music production, where, even if the preamps are high quality, they are still noisier than what will be useable for filmmaking.




For anyone curious, my background in other areas of audio... I've been doing sound reinforcement for 10 years (not huge scale) and for the past 2 years, I've been tinkering with home recording, again, using Ableton software.


Thanks for any help,
Marshall H.

 

[IndiePaul]

I'm sure the audio pros will answer but hopefully this will help to.

Question one: syncing audio with video. I use PluralEyes 3 by redgiant. It will make your audio sync workflow a lot faster. The downside is the software costs $199.

PluralEyes 3
http://www.redgiant.com/products/all/pluraleyes/

You must also capture audio in-camera too, so that PluralEyes has a baseline audio in which to sync to your external audio files.

You can use a clapper board and sync manually but obviously that workflow takes a lot longer.

PluralEyes 3 is not perfect but it should be able to auto-sync 80%+ of your audio - saving you a huge amount of time. The audio it cannot sync, you have to do manually.

Question two. The pros will answer but basically professional results requires professional kit and software - which would likely be 8x your current budget.

However with your budget, you should still be able to capture 'decent' audio.

Software-wise I manly use the free audacity. Others use Adobe Audition etc.

I'll let the pros comment on your gear but do also consider the new:

Tascam DR-60D 4-Channel Linear PCM Recorder
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929347-REG/tascam_dr_60d_4_ch_track_linear_pcm.html

Since you're not buying a preamp/mixer, it's crucial you purchase the recorder with the best preamps. Is that the Tascam or Zoom - both are very new, I don't know...

I bought this:

Tascam DR-40 4-Track Handheld Digital Audio Recorder
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821259-REG/Tascam_DR_40_DR_40_4_Track_Handheld_Digital.html

But also a good (but basic) preamp:

Sound Devices MM-1 Single Channel Portable Microphone Preamp
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...evices_MM_1_MM_1_Single_Channel_Portable.html

The preamp on the MM-1 is very good - much better than my Tascam's or your Zoom's.. It has hugely helped my audio capture.

I really wanted to get this but my budget would not stretch to it:

Sound Devices MixPre-D Compact Field Mixer
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...es_MIXPRE_D_MixPre_D_Compact_Field_Mixer.html

And make sure you get your cabling right, and understand phantom power (if your mic needs it). Supplying phantom power (through your Zoom/Tascam) to a mic that does not need it could damage it.

 

[IhateMyjob]

I'm sure the audio pros will answer but hopefully this will help to.

Question one: syncing audio with video. I use PluralEyes 3 by redgiant. It will make your audio sync workflow a lot faster. The downside is the software costs $199.

PluralEyes 3
http://www.redgiant.com/products/all/pluraleyes/

You must also capture audio in-camera too, so that PluralEyes has a baseline audio in which to sync to your external audio files.


Tascam DR-60D 4-Channel Linear PCM Recorder
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929347-REG/tascam_dr_60d_4_ch_track_linear_pcm.html


And make sure you get your cabling right, and understand phantom power (if your mic needs it). Supplying phantom power (through your Zoom/Tascam) to a mic that does not need it could damage it.

Thanks for the response! I have seen PluralEyes, but wasn't sure if it worked well enough to be a serious consideration!

I watched a review about the new Tascam DR-60, it the major negitive I saw with it was it's digital potentiometers for level control, which give a clicky sound when adjusting during recording. That was a major consideration when choosing the H6 was the analog pots for the level controls, as apposed to having to click buttons to select, then adjust levels (which from what I understand is what you have to do with the lower priced Zoom H4n).

What do you mean by getting my cabling right? As I mentioned, I've done SR for a long time, and home recording for a while, but are there special considerations as far as choosing cables in filmmaking?

 

[jax_rox]

First off, when you're recording audio to a separate recorder, and, say you film all day, then go home to off load, assuming you're not using timecode, when you off load all your video and audio files, how do you know which audio file goes with which video files... I know I've seen behind the scenes stuff from movies where all the info is on the slate, and said out loud before the director says action, but are there other ways to do this?

Question one: syncing audio with video. I use PluralEyes 3 by redgiant. It will make your audio sync workflow a lot faster. The downside is the software costs $199.

PluralEyes is fine if you have a camera with a 'scratch' or guide track. Most cameras don't, at least at a professional level. DSLRs, handycams and some prosumer cameras do, but that's about it. Generally you're down to the slate.
If you have a good PSM, he/she will name the files as they are on the slate (i.e. the file will say '1A Take 1'), and/or they will jot it down on the sound report - on the sound report they will have it written that 1A Take 1 corresponds to file number 'T44' and is a good take for sound, or has a chainsaw in the background, or has a missed tail slate etc.
If your PSM is less experienced, you'll just have to go through and listen to the start of each sound file and listen for the call (i.e. '1A Take 2 Marker' CLAP!). If you have to do this, it's not too bad, as generally camera and sound are speeding at similar times, so you know that, in general, if file T44 is Take 1, and you can see from the slates on the footage that you did six takes, that T44-T49 are probably going to be takes 1-6 (though you should always listen to make sure).

Lastly, I've been researching around trying to put together a consumer/prosumer audio set up to start working with, and what I've found is as follows.

Let me preface this by saying I'm no audio guy - I'm a camera guy primarily. But, I work on a regular basis with very good and very experienced PSM's and I talk to them about all sorts of things (at least until my sound knowledge wavers out).

The NTG2 is okay, but has internal battery which means that you will get less output out of it (I don't know the specifics - the how and why - just the what Maybe the audio guys can tell you the how/why).
I know the NTG3, which is not much more expensive than the NTG2 is a very decent all-round mic that some PSMs I know use/used and recommend as a lower cost alternative that gives a very similar response and sound to mic's 2-3x the price. The NTG3 is Phantom powered which means you need to power it via a recorder. Some prosumer cameras have Phantom power, and most XLR-based recorders (I'm pretty sure the H6 would have it).

In terms of your headphones, I would think that you'd want flat response headphones, rather than bass enhanced.

Most of the PSMs I know use/own Sound Devices Mixers and Recorders, but they are a lot more expensive than things like the H6.

 

[IndiePaul]

What do you mean by getting my cabling right? As I mentioned, I've done SR for a long time, and home recording for a while, but are there special considerations as far as choosing cables in filmmaking?

You'll be fine then. I just started movie making this year so all the cabling was new to me - had to research it all, took some time. And as I said you could damage you mic etc if you got the cabling/phantom set-up wrong - which was a concern for a newbie with brand new gear such as myself back then.

 

[Alcove Audio]

First off, when you're recording audio to a separate recorder, and, say you film all day, then go home to off load, assuming you're not using timecode, when you off load all your video and audio files, how do you know which audio file goes with which video files... I know I've seen behind the scenes stuff from movies where all the info is on the slate, and said out loud before the director says action, but are there other ways to do this?

Unless you have digital sync visually and verbally slating is the only way to go. They've been doing it with film for 90+ years. Tried and true!

Second, I know that Pro Tools is industry standard for pretty much anything audio oriented, but my question, are there other DAWs that are useable to obtain professional results? (For instance, I currently use Ableton Live for audio production).... Basic question boils down to, if I'm serious about specializing in the audio side of filmmaking, do I need to learn Pro Tools?

Yes, you can get professional results with other DAWS, but if you want to make a career of audio post then Pro Tools is the only way to go. That way you are compatible with all of the other audio post facilities out there. Plus, your clients will expect it; if they don't see "Pro Tools" they probably go somewhere else.

Lastly, I've been researching around trying to put together a consumer/prosumer audio set up to start working with... Are there any items on this list that jump out as poor choices?

You may find this threads to be of interest:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=49443&highlight=$1,200

Also, I've looked at field mixers on BH, and I'm questioning whether I need one with the H6 just starting out... I know Sound Devices makes high quality mixers with super quiet pre's however, as of now, they are out of my price range, and I suspect a lot of the lower price mixers are more geared towards music production, where, even if the preamps are high quality, they are still noisier than what will be useable for filmmaking.

The Sound Devices MM-1 is a great investment; most professional sound kits have at least one. Yeah, it's $500, but will last for years and years.

I have seen PluralEyes, but wasn't sure if it worked well enough to be a serious consideration!

It's not perfect, but is a time saver.


My whole philosophy when putting together a professional kit is to go modular and to invest heavily in quality. This is tough on a budget. My $1,200 sound kit is meant for the filmmaker who wants to purchase audio gear rather than hiring someone. Since you are the guy who wants to be hired I recommend better gear. You could start out with some of my suggestions from the $1,200 kit, but I would buy accessories a lá carte rather than buying the kits. Get the an 18' carbon/fibre boom-pole; yup, it's expensive, but if you take care of it it will last a long, long time. The same with the blimp & dead cat and all the other accessories. It's an investment in your career, and spending more now will save you a lot in the future, both monetarily and in terms of your reputation.

Just as an example, I would get the NTG-1, the Avantone CK-1 and the DR-100mkII. That's a bit under $750. I would add a graphite or carbon fiber boom-pole - between $600 and $700. Instead of the 7' to 10' reach one of the "kit" boom-poles will give you you'll get up to a 20' reach. Instead of the "fuzzy" wind protection you get in a kit, get a real blimp & dead cat - $300 to $400. Add in the MM-1 ($500); it will provide the phantom power to the mics (the DR-100 batteries drain very quickly when supplying phantom power, the MM-1 has far superior battery life) and give you more control. Get the Petrol or equivalent bag for the DR-100. Get quality cables, etc. Cheap cables last a month, quality cables last a year or more - and are easily repairable. Remember, this is an investment in your career! Yes, you're in the $3k range now, but from now on you'll be adding quality mics (keep the old ones for back-ups) and making additions to your kit rather than replacing things. Okay, you'll replace the audio recorder, but, again, it's an investment, and you'll have the DR-100 as a back-up if disaster strikes. At the same time you replace the audio recorder you're ready for a quality mixer, and probably be adding wireless lav systems.

I would suggest that you check out http://jwsoundgroup.net/, which is hosted by Jeff Wexler. These are all production sound professionals with extensive experience. Here's Jeffs IMDB; you may recognize a film or two he's worked on:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923306/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

Excuse me for getting long winded.

 

[IhateMyjob]

Unless you have digital sync visually and verbally slating is the only way to go. They've been doing it with film for 90+ years. Tried and true!



Yes, you can get professional results with other DAWS, but if you want to make a career of audio post then Pro Tools is the only way to go. That way you are compatible with all of the other audio post facilities out there. Plus, your clients will expect it; if they don't see "Pro Tools" they probably go somewhere else.



You may find this threads to be of interest:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=49443&highlight=$1,200




The Sound Devices MM-1 is a great investment; most professional sound kits have at least one. Yeah, it's $500, but will last for years and years.




It's not perfect, but is a time saver.


My whole philosophy when putting together a professional kit is to go modular and to invest heavily in quality. This is tough on a budget. My $1,200 sound kit is meant for the filmmaker who wants to purchase audio gear rather than hiring someone. Since you are the guy who wants to be hired I recommend better gear. You could start out with some of my suggestions from the $1,200 kit, but I would buy accessories a lá carte rather than buying the kits. Get the an 18' carbon/fibre boom-pole; yup, it's expensive, but if you take care of it it will last a long, long time. The same with the blimp & dead cat and all the other accessories. It's an investment in your career, and spending more now will save you a lot in the future, both monetarily and in terms of your reputation.

Just as an example, I would get the NTG-1, the Avantone CK-1 and the DR-100mkII. That's a bit under $750. I would add a graphite or carbon fiber boom-pole - between $600 and $700. Instead of the 7' to 10' reach one of the "kit" boom-poles will give you you'll get up to a 20' reach. Instead of the "fuzzy" wind protection you get in a kit, get a real blimp & dead cat - $300 to $400. Add in the MM-1 ($500); it will provide the phantom power to the mics (the DR-100 batteries drain very quickly when supplying phantom power, the MM-1 has far superior battery life) and give you more control. Get the Petrol or equivalent bag for the DR-100. Get quality cables, etc. Cheap cables last a month, quality cables last a year or more - and are easily repairable. Remember, this is an investment in your career! Yes, you're in the $3k range now, but from now on you'll be adding quality mics (keep the old ones for back-ups) and making additions to your kit rather than replacing things. Okay, you'll replace the audio recorder, but, again, it's an investment, and you'll have the DR-100 as a back-up of disaster strikes. At the same time you replace the audio recorder you're ready for a quality mixer, and probably be adding wireless lav systems.

I would suggest that you check out http://jwsoundgroup.net/, which is hosted by Jeff Wexler. These are all production sound professionals with extensive experience. Here's Jeffs IMDB; you may recognize a film or two he's worked on:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923306/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

Excuse me for getting long winded.

Thank you so much for this!

It makes sense to purchase higher quality, for the long term.

If I may ask you an additional question, What (besides Pro Tools) will I need in my post production studio. Will all the mixes be handled in Pro Tools? or will I need to set up physical mixers/signal processor/ect (many of which I might have)

I'm going to check out jwsoundgroup.net, Jeff Wexler's resume is impressive!!!

 

[Alcove Audio]

What (besides Pro Tools) will I need in my post production studio. Will all the mixes be handled in Pro Tools? or will I need to set up physical mixers/signal processor/ect (many of which I might have).

That all depends upon what you want to do and your particular circumstances. I have a couple of mic pres and a bunch of mics for doing ADR/VO, Foley and sound effects work. Otherwise everything is ITB (In The Box for all you non-audio types; I very rarely send signal to external processors or effects). Since I am primarily an editor I currently only have stereo monitoring (Mackie HR824, Tannoy PBM-8 and Harmon-Cardon computer speakers with a Mackie Big Knob), and I have a TV monitor in both the studio (for ADR and Foley) and the control room. I use the Canopus ADVC-110 as my video interface. I have two computer monitors - one for the track window, the other for the mix, plug-ins, etc.; it speeds the work flow.

You'll need Vocalign if you intend on doing a lot of dialog editing and ADR. An IR reverb is nice to have (I have AltiVerb) and some futz plug-ins are always useful. You'll also want a very large external drive for your sound effects collection; a management software like SoundMiner is very helpful for keeping it organized and metadata as your sound effects and stock music library grows. After every project I move all the custom sound effects and Foley I created for that project to my personal library; it adds up fast!

It's also important that your room be treated.

 

[IhateMyjob]

Yes, you can get professional results with other DAWS, but if you want to make a career of audio post then Pro Tools is the only way to go. That way you are compatible with all of the other audio post facilities out there. Plus, your clients will expect it; if they don't see "Pro Tools" they probably go somewhere else.

I found out that my local Guitar Center will be holding a free basic Pro Tools class in September, so I'll probably go to that to try to get a basic feel for the DAW. From what I understand going by what the guy who will be teaching the class, he said that even though Pro Tools has a steep learning curve, it stems from the fact that it is built "by engineers, for engineers" (his words), as apposed to being more geared for DIY'ers..... If that is true, I think I will like Pro Tools, because there are some things in Ableton, that I think are too (for lack of a better term) "too user friendly" as in, I have less control than I want in some situations.....

That all depends upon what you want to do and your particular circumstances. I have a couple of mic pres and a bunch of mics for doing ADR/VO, Foley and sound effects work. Otherwise everything is ITB (In The Box for all you non-audio types; I very rarely send signal to external processors or effects). Since I am primarily an editor I currently only have stereo monitoring (Mackie HR824, Tannoy PBM-8 and Harmon-Cardon computer speakers with a Mackie Big Knob), and I have a TV monitor in both the studio (for ADR and Foley) and the control room. I use the Canopus ADVC-110 as my video interface. I have two computer monitors - one for the track window, the other for the mix, plug-ins, etc.; it speeds the work flow.

You'll need Vocalign if you intend on doing a lot of dialog editing and ADR. An IR reverb is nice to have (I have AltiVerb) and some futz plug-ins are always useful. You'll also want a very large external drive for your sound effects collection; a management software like SoundMiner is very helpful for keeping it organized and metadata as your sound effects and stock music library grows. After every project I move all the custom sound effects and Foley I created for that project to my personal library; it adds up fast!

It's also important that your room be treated.

Thanks for this! Question on the studio monitors, are there monitors made specifically for film audio work? I'm a huge fan of the KRK Rokit series monitors....

I just watched a video on VocAlign, I had been curious how you get ADR to sync with the video properly.


Also, Alcove Audio, I just read your 3 part blog on Production sound basics... A lot of good information!!




I have an additional question, I asked earlier about audio/video syncing... will that be my job? Or is that something that the editor usually does? (Keep in mind, I'm not in LA or NYC... I'm in a town where it's all indie, and all low budget... so crews aren't as big as they are on big budget projects)


Edit** I guess I have a 2nd question, I noticed the DR-100mkii doesn't offer an option to record a backup track, which from what I've read, most people consider very important.... Is this because, since I will be monitoring constantly, as apposed to the combination Writer/Director/DP just hitting record and letting it record (remember... small town, small crews lol)

 

[Alcove Audio]

Question on the studio monitors, are there monitors made specifically for film audio work? I'm a huge fan of the KRK Rokit series monitors....

Audio monitors are a very personal thing. To me the KRK monitors are a little too colored. I really like my Mackie H824 monitors - they were right for my ears and my room, not to mention that the price was right when I bought them.

The "big" houses primarily use Genelecs or JBL, and Focal monitors have been coming on very strong the last couple of years. Way out of my price range at $2k+ per monitor - and you need five (5) plus the sub if you're doing surround. Yup, $12k for monitors is a little beyond me at this time. You should, just for fun, check out the Todd-AO, Warner Bros. and Skywalker Sound websites; audio post porn for guys like us!

I just watched a video on VocAlign, I had been curious how you get ADR to sync with the video properly.

I couldn't live without it! That doesn't mean you won't have to slice and dice sometimes to get it right, however.

Also, Alcove Audio, I just read your 3 part blog on Production sound basics... A lot of good information!!

Thanks! You should pick up "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers - quite excellent.

I have an additional question, I asked earlier about audio/video syncing... will that be my job? Or is that something that the editor usually does? (Keep in mind, I'm not in LA or NYC... I'm in a town where it's all indie, and all low budget... so crews aren't as big as they are on big budget projects)

Probably not. Most of the time the editor (actually, the editing intern ) will do the syncing before they edit. The dialog editor(s) usually get the film after it's been cut. I always ask for all of the alt DX (DX from the unused takes) and any wild DX that was done on-set, although DX wilds are very rare on indie projects.

Edit** I guess I have a 2nd question, I noticed the DR-100mkii doesn't offer an option to record a backup track, which from what I've read, most people consider very important.... Is this because, since I will be monitoring constantly, as apposed to the combination Writer/Director/DP just hitting record and letting it record (remember... small town, small crews lol)

If you are planning to do production sound for a living a back-up unit is a good idea. However, that's when you get into the more expensive mixers that have extensive routing capabilities - a send to the back-up, a send to the camera (if it's digital) and a send to the director and anyone else who wants one, and later on a send to the video village if there is one. You'll need a headphone distribution system and have to supply all of the headphones.

That's why large budget pros use Sound Devices or similar quality products. You record individual tracks - boomed mic and all the lavs get separate tracks - plus you do a mix of the boom and lavs. This mix track is what goes to the camera, director, etc., and will probably be what the editor will use. This is when the DX editor(s) would use PluralEyes, to sync up the individual tracks with the mix track.

BTW, the sound crew is technically responsible for on-set comms - walkie-talkies, bullhorns, etc.; after all, they are sound related.

 

[IhateMyjob]

You should, just for fun, check out the Todd-AO, Warner Bros. and Skywalker Sound websites; audio post porn for guys like us!

Holy crap... I want this.




Stage 2 at Warner Brothers

Thanks! You should pick up "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers - quite excellent.

I will try to find this book!!

If you are planning to do production sound for a living a back-up unit is a good idea. However, that's when you get into the more expensive mixers that have extensive routing capabilities - a send to the back-up, a send to the camera (if it's digital) and a send to the director and anyone else who wants one, and later on a send to the video village if there is one. You'll need a headphone distribution system and have to supply all of the headphones.

That's why large budget pros use Sound Devices or similar quality products. You record individual tracks - boomed mic and all the lavs get separate tracks - plus you do a mix of the boom and lavs. This mix track is what goes to the camera, director, etc., and will probably be what the editor will use. This is when the DX editor(s) would use PluralEyes, to sync up the individual tracks with the mix track.

Alright, this makes sense.. I just remember reading that some low end field recorders (Tascam Dr-40 I believe) which can record 4 tracks, can record your main track, then a back up of the same audio at a slightly lower gain level, in the even that the main distorts, you have kind of a "fall back" track

BTW, the sound crew is technically responsible for on-set comms - walkie-talkies, bullhorns, etc.; after all, they are sound related.

Interesting, I never would have thought of that!

 

[IndiePaul]

Great posts Alcove Audio - will be keeping all this great advice.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I will try to find this book!!

Here's my "basics" list for audio post:

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament
Dialog Editing - John Purcell (revised 2nd edition just came out)
The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
Sound Design - David Sonnenschein (a more artistic/philosophical POV than practical applications)
Sound and Vision - Michel Chion
Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Lewis Yewdall (a bit dated, but still pretty good)

There are a lot of other good books, but these are my faves.

All are available on Amazon as well as "The Location Sound Bible."

Alright, this makes sense.. I just remember reading that some low end field recorders (Tascam Dr-40 I believe) which can record 4 tracks, can record your main track, then a back up of the same audio at a slightly lower gain level, in the even that the main distorts, you have kind of a "fall back" track

It's called "Dual Mono Mode." It's been a while, but if I remember correctly recorders like the PMD-661 and HD-P2 can do dual mono; the normal signal is recorded to one channel and the other channel records -20dB lower or by adjusting the inputs levels to your desired preset level.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Todd AO

Skywalker Sound

My personal hero Randy Thom at the console



Just for fun, me on set a reeeeeealllly loooooooong time ago:

​

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Here's my "basics" list for audio post:

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament
Dialog Editing - John Purcell (revised 2nd edition just came out)
The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
Sound Design - David Sonnenschein (a more artistic/philosophical POV than practical applications)
Sound and Vision - Michel Chion
Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Lewis Yewdall (a bit dated, but still pretty good)

I'm going to give those a look

Thanks!

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Question on the studio monitors, are there monitors made specifically for film audio work? I'm a huge fan of the KRK Rokit series monitors....

When you say film, what exactly do you mean, for the web, commercial DVD/BluRay, TV broadcast, theatrical features for film festivals, etc?

The reason I ask is that it makes a huge difference! Requirements for each sector a very different, so the facilities and equipment are very different. For the web you can use almost any half decent set of speakers and your Rokits will be fine but when you start to get into the commercial world of TV or even the better film festivals, it gets considerably more expensive/complicated and your Rokits will almost certainly not be suitable.

All the photos in this thread so far have custom speaker systems by JBL, Meyer Sound but you're looking at hundreds of thousands and we haven't even mentioned acoustics and room treatment which is massively expensive and why all the facilities listed here so far cost several tens of millions to build and equip!

ProTools is definitely worth your time to learn. A low end system is pretty cheap but sessions created on a cheap system will load up on a big commercial ProTools system. As the audio post market is dominated by ProTools this means your sessions will be compatible even with the establishments listed above. The cheap ProTools systems only allow you to do 2.0 stereo sound though, not surround. 5.1 is a must for the majority of commercial TV work and of course anything to be screened in a cinema.

If you like photos, here's me in my mix room:

G

 

[IhateMyjob]

Here's my "basics" list for audio post:

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament
Dialog Editing - John Purcell (revised 2nd edition just came out)
The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
Sound Design - David Sonnenschein (a more artistic/philosophical POV than practical applications)
Sound and Vision - Michel Chion
Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Lewis Yewdall (a bit dated, but still pretty good)

Awesome! I will try to start getting these books!

When you say film, what exactly do you mean, for the web, commercial DVD/BluRay, TV broadcast, theatrical features for film festivals, etc?

The reason I ask is that it makes a huge difference! Requirements for each sector a very different, so the facilities and equipment are very different. For the web you can use almost any half decent set of speakers and your Rokits will be fine but when you start to get into the commercial world of TV or even the better film festivals, it gets considerably more expensive/complicated and your Rokits will almost certainly not be suitable.

As of now, the area I'm in, I will be primarily working on shorts and features for Vimeo/Youtube release... But I want to have the right equipment in case a project presents it's self where DVD release, or possibly a festival run is a possibility.

ProTools is definitely worth your time to learn. A low end system is pretty cheap but sessions created on a cheap system will load up on a big commercial ProTools system. As the audio post market is dominated by ProTools this means your sessions will be compatible even with the establishments listed above. The cheap ProTools systems only allow you to do 2.0 stereo sound though, not surround. 5.1 is a must for the majority of commercial TV work and of course anything to be screened in a cinema.

When you say a "cheap Pro Tools system", are you talking about the Pro Tools Express software that comes with some of the Mbox interfaces? My plan is to get Pro Tools 11, it is fairly affordable with the student pricing offered through BHphotovideo.

If you like photos, here's me in my mix room:

G

Geeze that is awesome!.... let me paint a word picture for you of my home recording set up (keep it mind, it is primarily hobby based, I don't make money doing it)... What I have is a basic desk with a laptop sitting on top of it, monitors, Mackie analog mixer running into a USB interface..... Then, for a "studio" I have an emptied out closet with all racks and shelves removed, which has a mic stand and music stand, and the walls are double layers of mattress egg crates...

Now, before anyone tells me I will need to improve these facilities... I already know that... this is just what I had, and what I could afford to do.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Nice mixing room

 

[AudioPostExpert]

As of now, the area I'm in, I will be primarily working on shorts and features for Vimeo/Youtube release... But I want to have the right equipment in case a project presents it's self where DVD release, or possibly a festival run is a possibility.

For Vimeo/Youtube what you have is OK, although I would seriously recommend you learn about room acoustics and treat your room, which with a bit of DIY can be quite cheap and will dramatically improve the performance of your speakers. You are always going to have problems with low frequency content as your speakers cannot reproduce low frequencies. You are just going to have to work around this problem for the time being and filter out low frequency content.

You will also be OK for the very low level festivals, those festivals where the screenings occur in ad hoc venues but you'll have to pass on projects aimed at the higher level festivals which screen in cinemas. Cinema/Theatres have huge sound systems which are so drastically different from what you have that you won't have any idea what you are mixing or what it will sound like on a theatrical system. For DVD you might be OK if it's a small run for self distribution but if it's for a commercial distributor you would almost certainly need a mixing environment capable of TV broadcast standards and that will mean a complete system/environment upgrade and considerable cost.

Here are a couple of sites to get you started with room acoustics: AVForums, Home Theatre Shack.

When you say a "cheap Pro Tools system", are you talking about the Pro Tools Express software that comes with some of the Mbox interfaces? My plan is to get Pro Tools 11, it is fairly affordable with the student pricing offered through BHphotovideo.

No, I'm not talking about ProTools Express, I'm talking about Pro Tools 11. For surround (5.1, etc.) and the full audio post feature set you will need one of the flavours of ProTools 11HD (HDN, HDX). For the level/type of work you are aiming at, stereo and the non-HD version of ProTools 11 should be fine.

Now, before anyone tells me I will need to improve these facilities... I already know that... this is just what I had, and what I could afford to do.

Of course, if/when you are looking to do commercial quality audio post then what you have or what you can afford is totally irrelevant. What's relevant is that you have the tools/environment to allow you to do the job to the standards required by potential customers and that's going to mean some serious upgrading at considerable cost.

G

 

[IhateMyjob]

I have another quick question.

I was looking at the pictures on BHphotovideo of the Tascam DR-100mkII that has been recommended, and that I'm planning to purchase.

And I noticed it had a 3.5mm line out that is separate from the 3.5mm headphone out. Since the filmmaking team I'll be working with [the most] shoots on a 5dmkIII with manual audio controls; could that line out be used to send the signal coming into the recorder into the camera just, to have the in camera audio as a backup?

Or is that a bad practice?