sound Least expensive sound treatment?

[icba pictures]

As usual... A newb question about treating a recording area for foley, music, v.o.'s, and whatever else I need to capture sound for... I guess my question is, can I get away with 10-12 fleece blankets hanging on the walls, ceiling, and laid on the floors? It's a small room about 10x12 in my basement so concrete isolation is mandatory. Is there a low budget replacement for "egg-crate" or acoustic foam. I know any treatment is better than none, but as usual, budget limits quality. I shouldn't even ask since I know the reply's are going to be "spend the money", but if I can spend $70 rather than $150... I would rather. But if there's something for $80 or $90... then I would go for that to get better sound.

 

[knightly]

You can go to a fabric store and get egg crate foam or cheap. It's not acoustically perfect, but it'll do the trick. Thick gray stuff with less smooth surface is the best stuff. The goal is to make it so that the sound waves will diffuse/absorb rather than reflect.

 

[8salacious9]

Two double blankets over your head while crouching

 

[icba pictures]

Two double blankets over your head while crouching

Aaahahaha.. Tough to record a 3-peice band like that, the drummer really hates it.

knightly: I'll check my local fabric store tonight, thanks.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Knightly: The egg crate/carton thing was a myth started in the '70s. For diffusion you need hard, dense reflective material; solid wood or at least coated MDF and for absorption you need thick softer material. Egg carton is not reflective and is too thin to absorb much, so is pretty much a waste of time as an acoustic treatment.

Icba: You're asking for different, mutually exclusive things! VOs and Foley require a dead acoustic while music recording usually requires a more lively warm acoustic. That's why commercial recording studios have a nice big warm sounding live room and then a separate much deader vocal booth. Foley is usually closely mic'ed in large Foley rooms, to minimise the balance of the reflections compared to the direct sound.

With such a small room it's going to be next to impossible to achieve a decent warm acoustic for music so IMHO, you'd be better trying to kill what you can and going for a relatively dead room for VOs and certain types of Foley: Carpet the floor and get rugs/blankets (as thick as you can) for the walls and ceiling. To maximise the efficiency of the rugs/blankets don't mount them against the wall, mount them several inches away from the wall. The sound waves pass through the blanket, where some of them get absorbed, hit the concrete walls and are reflected into the back of the rug/blanket and get absorbed again. The efficiency of the blankets/rugs is usually improved by 50% or more mounting it away from the wall this way.

You should be able to do all this pretty cheaply but don't be under any illusions that you will have a "good" or acoustically treated room, you will have deadened your room somewhat but not acoustically treated it. It will certainly be way better than naked concrete walls but there's next to no chance it would get you anywhere near professional/commercial standards. Virtually all rooms have numerous acoustic problems, minimising the number and severity of those problems costs a fortune and is one of the main reasons why high class commercial facilities are so expensive to hire.

G

 

[knightly]

not egg crates... egg crate foam, like a mattress pad

 

[AudioPostExpert]

not egg crates... egg crate foam, like a mattress pad.

OK, sorry, difference in language there. Even so, you have to be careful with foam for sound insulation/absorption, some of it works really well while other, visually almost identical foam, can have almost no useful acoustic properties. I personally avoid foam unless it's specifically an acoustic product.

G

 

[icba pictures]

G,
Thank you very much for your input. I figured as dead as I could get it since it is the only audio/video room available to me at my house. Only the floor and 2 walls are concrete, the ceiling and one wall are partially insulated 2x4's/10's and one door'd wall is sheetrock. A mixed room acoustically for sure... I just bought 8 fleece blankets to hang as directed, and will place them accordingly. I am also planning on getting at least a dead sound so I have something to start with, without sharp echos if possible. It will be better than nothing, i will use other locations for future projects when I get more involved.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I am also planning on getting at least a dead sound so I have something to start with, without sharp echos if possible. It will be better than nothing, i will use other locations for future projects when I get more involved.

You'll probably get rid of the worst of the flutter echoes if your blankets are thick enough but you won't have a "dead" room, just deader than it was before. Mainly what you're planning to do will absorb the higher frequencies. For standing waves, cancellations and most of the other problems in the lower mid and bass frequencies there's not much you can do without some test equipment and a fairly substantial budget.

You seem to have realistic expectations of what you're doing and of course, cheap basic sound treatment is certainly better than nothing. Good luck.

G

 

[Alcove Audio]

For part of the sound proofing when I rebuilt the studio on a shoestring back in '08 we used Celotex. It looks sort of like fiberboard but has much better acoustic properties. An 8x4 sheet was about $25 back then.

This is the control room; the window looks into the studio.

Studio looking into the control room.

We put 3/8" acoustic sheet rock over the Celotex and used 1" acoustic ceiling tiles. The floor was floated on neoprene with 1"x2" studs and quality 3/4" plywood for the flooring and a thick pad under the carpeting. The floor was 1"x2" studs and quality 3/4" plywood for the flooring, floated on neoprene. Probably more than you want to spend, but maybe you can get a few ideas.

 

[icba pictures]

Alcove,
Actually yes. I have what's called buffalo board used under rubber roofing. Last I paid was $7.xx for a sheet. Very similar to Celotex. I have 2 at the shop and will get more, (I paid $5 each for the fleece blankets, haha). That should help a little, as even with the blankets i get echo. Are there any mic.s that might be better at recording in a concrete/wooden box? If I can't get most of the reverbs out? Not looking for perfection in my little "studio" just wanting a reasonable starting point.
Oh yeah, and I figure the blankets can be used for double duty if Sandy takes out the power...

 

[Alcove Audio]

Sound is a very complex topic, because sound, unlike light, travels through solid materials, and in fact is sometimes enhanced in certain situations (standing waves, etc.). You can't see it from the pictures, but my studio is 6" away from the outside walls of my basement; the extra airspace is more insulation.

The very raw basics are non-parallel walls, sound absorbent materials, airspace. The more money you spend, the better it will sound.

Buffalo board is a lot different than acoustic Celotex; it looks similar but has radically different acoustic properties.

 

[icba pictures]

Aah, good to know. Will skip that then. Just spent most of my audio recording budget today (600) and will be looking to spend software budget next. I guess the "studio" acoustics will have to be what they are for now, maybe some tweaking here or there. It really is just a work space that all the family's music equipment is in. I hope to give it a shake-down next week with a small jam session, then do some dialog testing with the new mic.s while boomed. Thanks.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Start with acoustic ceiling tiles from Home Depot; you can probably do your whole ceiling for about $100 to $120.

Start an account with FreeCycle; choose the immediate email notification (I get 40 to 90 per day from two different counties) and check it frequently. You can eliminate 80% of them from the subject line (you won't be interested in breast pumps and childrens clothing, for example), and it doesn't take much time to winnow through the rest. I got about $500 of real Auralex sound treatment for free about 18 months ago. I've picked up carpeting, bookcases and all kinds of other odds and ends plus lots of unique items to use as Foley props. You should be looking for carpeting - just keep piling it on - moving pads, quilts, etc. If you pursue it diligently (that's why the daily email notifications) you can accumulate a lot of stuff in a very short time. As a filmmaker you should also be able to find lots of interesting props.

 

[icba pictures]

I joined FreeCycle today, thanks. I will be scouting for carpet and padding for sure. I was spending so much time trying to get the best for the least that I just went ahead and ordered some gear. If I waste all my time shopping, I'll never learn anything. I got the Tascam DR-40, an AT-897, an ATR-6550 (for back-up/add-on,etc), cables, and a 10' boom. I know it's not the best but I really want to get going with things. I still need a set of headphones, and plan on the HD-280's as soon as they are back in stock. I am planning on using Premiere for editing since I'm tired of shopping for that too. Will I need any software for audio help, since I've chosen the path of the pauper? I have $530 left and was planning on getting a Mac Mini to edit things on... found a dual core intel for $500 with upgraded RAM and iLife. Will be my first Mac, I can't wait.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Return the ATR-6550 and spend the money on something useful, like wind protection. If you have wind protection get a battery pack for the DR-40, or some more cables, or a case for the DR-40, or perhaps spend a few more dollars and get the Avantone CK-1.

 

[icba pictures]

Carpeted the room with some free carpet and padding from a friend (only a few years old). Wow, what a difference. Still looking for acoustic tiles...
Going to get that Avantone soon, also wondering about some wired or wireless lavalier mic.s? Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Don't worry about lavs just yet. Good ones for filming are $250 and up, and you'll need at least two. Add almost $650 per unit for solid reliable wireless; again, you'll need at least two.

Instead, concentrate on technique.

BTW do you have a boom-pole, a shock-mount, wind protection, a battery pack, spare cables, or cases? What DAW are you using, and do you have a decent audio interface?

 

[icba pictures]

Ok, great. One less thing to worry about right now.
I have a boom pole, a dead cat, 2 xlr's and one 1/8 inch cable, a soft case for the DR40(changed), as well as a utility case for all my sound gear. I need to get a shock mount and a battery pack.
As for the DAW, well, I use the one inside of Lightworks now. Before I have used Audacity but really don't like it that much. And no audio interface at all.
I really enjoyed the Sound Works Collection web sight, and am learning alot about the amount of detail needed in the audio department. As mentioned in other posts, I need to start recording things and get some practice recording. I made a recording last week of a broken off pencil eraser inside of a balloon, swirling it around at different speeds... A very Transformer's type sound. Or maybe a tornado...

Any suggestions on entry level (read lo-budget) battery packs, shock mounts, interfaces and DAW's???

 

[Alcove Audio]

Any suggestions on entry level (read lo-budget) battery packs, shock mounts, interfaces and DAW's???

A far as I know there aren't any battery packs for the DR-10 (I thought you had a DR-40 or DR-100). Check out the Tascam site.

Audio Technica and Rode both make decent shock mounts for about $50.

As far as a DAW and interface... Pro Tools ($600) is the standard DAW for audio post. Nuendo (Mac/PC), Digital Performer (Mac) and Cubase (Mac/PC) are the other contenders. You can get PT with the MBox Pro for about $900. There are many available interfaces, but Pro Tools seems to like FireWire the best; on the audio forums there are some it seems to play with better than others. (PT SE, the stripped down M-Audio version or Pro Tools, works fine with USB).

I really enjoyed the Sound Works Collection web sight, and am learning alot about the amount of detail needed in the audio department.

SoundWorks is a great site, very inspirational

As mentioned in other posts, I need to start recording things and get some practice recording. I made a recording last week of a broken off pencil eraser inside of a balloon, swirling it around at different speeds... A very Transformer's type sound. Or maybe a tornado...

That's the fun part of sound design, unfortunately, you don't get to be that creative on most indie projects.