If you were just starting out, had no glass, no SDI card in your machine, no thunderbolt port, no color-grading experience, and no support gear-- but you could leverage $3000 for a camera-- what would you get?
Blackmagic Cinema Camera or Canon XF100?
- Thread starter Mannie Bothans
- Start date
Starting out doing what specifically? There's a lot of things you can do with a camera, which one is best is entirely dependent on what your short and long term goals are.
If you have no experience at all, and you're not currently enrolled or about to enter film school, my instinct would be to say go for the XF100. Or better yet get a Vixia M500, or a used M400, or even a used t3i, and hold on to the rest of the money until you have some experience shooting and editing and are better equipped to decide which camera is best suited to your needs, goals and work styles.
If you have no experience at all, and you're not currently enrolled or about to enter film school, my instinct would be to say go for the XF100. Or better yet get a Vixia M500, or a used M400, or even a used t3i, and hold on to the rest of the money until you have some experience shooting and editing and are better equipped to decide which camera is best suited to your needs, goals and work styles.
Seconded.
The question as posed is akin to stating "If I had an empty tool box should I buy a ratchet and socket set or a monkey wrench set?"
Umm... yeah, they both are for working on nuts to remove from or place onto bolts, but... it depends upon which is "best suited to your needs, goals and work styles."
Neither is "best" or more appropriate until you know what kind of work you'll be doing, and by then - you wouldn't need to ask the question!
Blackmagic would need Lenses and SSD drives. Could run into majr bucks there. The XF100 is ready to go with some CF cards
Im starting to think about looking into the Blackmagic myself cuz Im wanting to ge more serious in my efforts. There is also the Elphel open source cam too, but it is not quite ready for prime time
Im starting to think about looking into the Blackmagic myself cuz Im wanting to ge more serious in my efforts. There is also the Elphel open source cam too, but it is not quite ready for prime time
If I can turn my current part-time job into a real full-time job soon, that would be "just starting out" as a dedicated hobbyist who makes movies in his basement in his spare time with his kids as his crew for kicks.
If the best I can do in my current career for a while is my current (non-filmmaking-related) part-time job, I would like to get good enough to use the equipment to do local weddings, legal depositions, etc. I have already filmed two weddings for friends with very limited equipment but the old camcorder I have now will no longer transfer files to my computer. The only other camera I have is a Kodak pocketcam.
I'd go with the XF100. The BMDCC you'll have to grade absolutely everything you ever shoot, plus its form factor for things like weddings is... well...
Plus, you'd need to get SSDs, lenses, you'll probably want to get an EVF and some sort of handheld rig if you plan on going handheld..
XF100 runs off CFs which are cheaper and easier to wrangle, still provides you with 4:2:2 colour data, provides balanced XLRs rather than just 1/4" TRS and is more suited to someone who is 'just starting out'. It's more likely to help you get good images, whereas the BMDCC you'll really need to know cinematography to get good images.
Plus, you'd need to get SSDs, lenses, you'll probably want to get an EVF and some sort of handheld rig if you plan on going handheld..
XF100 runs off CFs which are cheaper and easier to wrangle, still provides you with 4:2:2 colour data, provides balanced XLRs rather than just 1/4" TRS and is more suited to someone who is 'just starting out'. It's more likely to help you get good images, whereas the BMDCC you'll really need to know cinematography to get good images.
Thanks. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I'd settled on the more prosumer-like XF100 realm, but I just wanted to confirm that I wasn't limiting myself too much out of the gate. I know that no matter how amazing camera I have, my shots will look like crap until I learn. But now I see it's not as much a matter of limiting my options (with fixed lens, single small 1/3" sensor, etc.) but a matter of not getting in over my head. It's much more than a matter of extreme cost difference, it's a matter of finding a tool I could actually use with my limited experience level.
This is what I'd like to do:
$2,849.00 1x Canon XF100
$600.00 1x Rode NTG-3 Shotgun
$150.00 1x Tascam DR40
$500.00 1x Blue Sky Exo2, 2.1, 3" Monitor System
$500.00 1x Audix SCX1/HC Hypercardioid
$380 for 2x $190 (320 minutes of space on) SanDisk Extreme - Flash Memory Card - 64 GB (2x 160min)
$280.00 1x tripod and head
$190 Proaim Mattebox
$150.00 for DIY lighting equipment, reflectors, and DIY stands
$100.00 Audio Cables, mic windfilters, PVC camera rig, home-made shockmounts, home-made boom,
?? Extra audio battery pack.
$0 1x Audacity Audio Editor
$600 for 1x Adobe Premiere Pro cs5.5 or ($100.00 Adobe Premiere Elements 10)
$30 extra camera battery
I need to keep my budget under $5000, so I am going to lose the matte box, go with smaller CF cards, maybe even go with a cheaper tripod head, and consider upgrading from an elements editor to the full thing later on. Still need to cut the wish list back more, though.
My schedule makes it so that most of what I can do is limited to brief bursts of hobby activity in my own basement ministudio, for now. If I really wanted to do a lot of mobile gigs later on, I'd want to pickup a b-roll cam.
$2,849.00 1x Canon XF100
$600.00 1x Rode NTG-3 Shotgun
$150.00 1x Tascam DR40
$500.00 1x Blue Sky Exo2, 2.1, 3" Monitor System
$500.00 1x Audix SCX1/HC Hypercardioid
$380 for 2x $190 (320 minutes of space on) SanDisk Extreme - Flash Memory Card - 64 GB (2x 160min)
$280.00 1x tripod and head
$190 Proaim Mattebox
$150.00 for DIY lighting equipment, reflectors, and DIY stands
$100.00 Audio Cables, mic windfilters, PVC camera rig, home-made shockmounts, home-made boom,
?? Extra audio battery pack.
$0 1x Audacity Audio Editor
$600 for 1x Adobe Premiere Pro cs5.5 or ($100.00 Adobe Premiere Elements 10)
$30 extra camera battery
I need to keep my budget under $5000, so I am going to lose the matte box, go with smaller CF cards, maybe even go with a cheaper tripod head, and consider upgrading from an elements editor to the full thing later on. Still need to cut the wish list back more, though.
My schedule makes it so that most of what I can do is limited to brief bursts of hobby activity in my own basement ministudio, for now. If I really wanted to do a lot of mobile gigs later on, I'd want to pickup a b-roll cam.
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I'd agree with dumping the mattebox, you won't even have a rods system to mount it on so it's pointless. Smaller CFs are a good idea, as you can always buy more when you need them, and can data wrangle if you have to.
Can I suggest Reaper over Audacity - http://www.reaper.fm/
It's $60 and 100x better than Audacity IMO. Plus, it gives you multitrack features which are essential to film audio post.
Don't get a cheaper tripod, $280 is super cheap as it is and the cheaper you go the crappier you get. A good tripod is important to have.
I'd also suggest dumping the Audix until you find you have a real need for it over the NTG-3. The Rode is a very good mic and I think you'll find you'll get great results with it. If you really need a hyper, consider the Okatava MK-012 - you can get them for ~$300 new.
Can I suggest Reaper over Audacity - http://www.reaper.fm/
It's $60 and 100x better than Audacity IMO. Plus, it gives you multitrack features which are essential to film audio post.
Don't get a cheaper tripod, $280 is super cheap as it is and the cheaper you go the crappier you get. A good tripod is important to have.
I'd also suggest dumping the Audix until you find you have a real need for it over the NTG-3. The Rode is a very good mic and I think you'll find you'll get great results with it. If you really need a hyper, consider the Okatava MK-012 - you can get them for ~$300 new.
You can go for Lightworks for video editing its free and it drops the 28th
Is there a particular reason you've chosen to get the DR40 for audio? There's certainly times where having a separate recorder can be convenient (if you have someone else to operate it) but it's not really as necessary with the XF100 as it would be with something like a DSLR, and it'll add extra time in post to sync things up. Personally I'd skip it and put the money towards getting a better tripod - $280 for a tripod & head is certainly workable, but as you move into the $4-500 range you're going to get something that works noticeably better.
$60 for Reaper is cheaper than Pro Tools MBox I guess.
Thanks for the heads up about Lightworks. What does the $60 version add?
I need to learn what battery pack will be good for the mic and recorder, and other sundry items, too.
I was thinking the hypercardioid would be better for indoor work, but I guess I can add later.
I was looking at these tripod/head combo, but I have absolutely no frame of reference for comparison:
Daiwa / Slik DST-43 Broadcast Tripod with Fluid Video Head
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757869-REG/Daiwa_Slik_DST43_DST_43_Broadcast_Tripod_with.html
Manfrotto 701HDV,547BK Video Tripod System Kit
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...V_547BK_701HDV_547BK_Video_Tripod_System.html
Acebil J-805MX Prosumer Tripod System
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/744361-REG/Acebil_J_805MX_J_805MX_Prosumer_Tripod_System.html
Sorry to be all over the place with this post, but what major pieces of equipment am I still forgetting:
$2,730.00 1x Canon XF100
$600.00 1x Rode NTG-3 Shotgun
$150.00 1x Tascam DR40
$500.00 1x Blue Sky Exo2, 2.1, 3" Monitor System
$176 = 2x $87.95 (164 minutes of space on) SanDisk Extreme Flash memory card - 32 GB (2x 82min)
$300.00 1x tripod and head
$150.00 for DIY lighting equipment, reflectors, and DIY stands
$100.00 Audio Cables, mic windfilters, PVC camera rig, home-made shockmounts, home-made boom, battery pack
$60.00 1x Reaper Digital Audio Workstation
$0 Lightworks
$30 extra camcorder battery
existing computer and monitor: old 64bit with 6GB DDR3-1333 (3x204
memory; one PCX 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 9800 GT; Creative Labs SoundBlaster® X-Fi™ XtremeAudio; and a 3-way SLI Motherboard EVGA X58 based chipset with CI Express; and an Intel® Core™ i7 processor i7 Intel® Core™ i7 with quad 2.66GHz cores, 8MB Cache (4.8 GT/sec); but only one 500GB Hitachi 7200rpm 16MB Cache SATA 300w/NCQ; a built-in card reader and one 20x DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner; and Windows 7.
Thanks for the heads up about Lightworks. What does the $60 version add?
I need to learn what battery pack will be good for the mic and recorder, and other sundry items, too.
I was thinking the hypercardioid would be better for indoor work, but I guess I can add later.
I was looking at these tripod/head combo, but I have absolutely no frame of reference for comparison:
Daiwa / Slik DST-43 Broadcast Tripod with Fluid Video Head
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757869-REG/Daiwa_Slik_DST43_DST_43_Broadcast_Tripod_with.html
Manfrotto 701HDV,547BK Video Tripod System Kit
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...V_547BK_701HDV_547BK_Video_Tripod_System.html
Acebil J-805MX Prosumer Tripod System
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/744361-REG/Acebil_J_805MX_J_805MX_Prosumer_Tripod_System.html
Sorry to be all over the place with this post, but what major pieces of equipment am I still forgetting:
$2,730.00 1x Canon XF100
$600.00 1x Rode NTG-3 Shotgun
$150.00 1x Tascam DR40
$500.00 1x Blue Sky Exo2, 2.1, 3" Monitor System
$176 = 2x $87.95 (164 minutes of space on) SanDisk Extreme Flash memory card - 32 GB (2x 82min)
$300.00 1x tripod and head
$150.00 for DIY lighting equipment, reflectors, and DIY stands
$100.00 Audio Cables, mic windfilters, PVC camera rig, home-made shockmounts, home-made boom, battery pack
$60.00 1x Reaper Digital Audio Workstation
$0 Lightworks
$30 extra camcorder battery
existing computer and monitor: old 64bit with 6GB DDR3-1333 (3x204
memory; one PCX 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 9800 GT; Creative Labs SoundBlaster® X-Fi™ XtremeAudio; and a 3-way SLI Motherboard EVGA X58 based chipset with CI Express; and an Intel® Core™ i7 processor i7 Intel® Core™ i7 with quad 2.66GHz cores, 8MB Cache (4.8 GT/sec); but only one 500GB Hitachi 7200rpm 16MB Cache SATA 300w/NCQ; a built-in card reader and one 20x DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Burner; and Windows 7.You're right, there might be times when having a dedicated boom operator might not be possible, and I'd have to do everything myself. The XF100 has proper XLRs, but does that mean the in-camera recorder is up to snuff? There were some posts in other forums about recorded static using the internal recorder on the xf100.
What are some solid tripods and heads that are worth examining?
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Running XLRs into Prosumer cameras is what they're designed for. I've never had major issues using it. If you do need a boom operator, get a longer cable, otherwise rent a recorder. I think you're better off without a recorder for now tbh.
As far as tripod, on the cheaper end I'd personally go with a Manfrotto 504head and sticks though that's possibly a little expensive still. Maybe go for the 501 head and two-stage sticks.
As far as tripod, on the cheaper end I'd personally go with a Manfrotto 504head and sticks though that's possibly a little expensive still. Maybe go for the 501 head and two-stage sticks.
Ouch. The cheapest B&H package with the 504 totals $715.00. The 502 is much cheaper and so is the Sachtler Ace. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822102-REG/Sachtler_1001_Ace_Fluid_Head_with.html
That now raises the startup total to $5,451.00.
$2,730.00 1x Canon XF100
$1,000.00 1x Rode NTG-3 Shotgun mic with pole, mount, windfilter
$715.00 1x tripod and head
$500.00 1x Blue Sky Exo2, 2.1, 3" Monitor System
$176.00 = 2x $87.95 (164 minutes of space on) SanDisk Extreme Flash memory card - 32 GB (2x 82min)
$140.00 ePhoto Softbox Lighting Kit H9004SB
$100.00 MDR-7506 headphones
$60.00 1x Reaper Digital Audio Workstation
$30.00 extra camcorder battery
$0.00 Lightworks
existing computer and monitor
If I had scripts in hand, a world of experience, and the time to film in concentrated blocks, I think renting equipment would be a better route. My day job chops up my time so much right now that I can only dabble a few hours here and few hours there, so the luxury of having my own small basement studio is extremely appealing to me.
Yeah, th 504 is not cheap if you were originally dropping $280 
I've never used the Sachtler Ace but have used much more expensive Sacthelrs and they are very nice, so I imagine the build quality would still be very high. The 504 is also quite good, so again I'm sure the 502 isn't that much of a step down. It all really depends on your budget. If you can afford to go for the more expensive tripod, then it's going to be a better tripod; if you can't quite afford the extra $215, you're not going to get a necessarily bad tripod. It just won't be as good as a more expensive one (as is to be expected).
I've never used the Sachtler Ace but have used much more expensive Sacthelrs and they are very nice, so I imagine the build quality would still be very high. The 504 is also quite good, so again I'm sure the 502 isn't that much of a step down. It all really depends on your budget. If you can afford to go for the more expensive tripod, then it's going to be a better tripod; if you can't quite afford the extra $215, you're not going to get a necessarily bad tripod. It just won't be as good as a more expensive one (as is to be expected).
Alcove Audio said:
I do like the idea of recording in two different levels simultaneously with the Tascam, but for just starting out, maybe I need to focus on deciding what are my absolute top prioriites. (e.g. a matte box is nice, but when I need the extra filters I can think about then and use whatever is available to block the glare in the meantime.)
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Yeah, th 504 is not cheap if you were originally dropping $280
I've never used the Sachtler Ace but have used much more expensive Sacthelrs and they are very nice, so I imagine the build quality would still be very high. The 504 is also quite good, so again I'm sure the 502 isn't that much of a step down. It all really depends on your budget. If you can afford to go for the more expensive tripod, then it's going to be a better tripod; if you can't quite afford the extra $215, you're not going to get a necessarily bad tripod. It just won't be as good as a more expensive one (as is to be expected).
I snagged an "open box" 504 with the 546 sticks on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/22101532881...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2566wt_1026
Apparently the "defect" that prevented it from going at full retail turned out to be "white marks on the bag."
I got it for $560 instead of $715 (if it is a legitimate dealer).
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