Yes another Camera Question

[Gustamize]

I read the threads on the other camera question and it seems like the Canon XL2 and the Panasonic AG-DVX100A are the 2 top choices. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything mentioned about the Sony HDR-FX1? I'm sure I'm not the only one that is dreaming for a XL2, but I do have the funds to purchase either the Sony or the Panasonic, but I have to save more pennies to purchase the XL2. I am afraid that if I opt to purchase the XL2, canon in a year will put out a better model (I know that's a risk with everything) but let's say a HD version of the camera (which eventually they will). The reason why I figure to get the Sony or Panasonic I could get 2-3 years worth of use out of it then I won't feel as bad when Canon does come out with an HD Version of the XL Series camera. The features I am most interested in is 16:9, and the 24p, but HD is the newer tech. I like the option that XL2 has the interchangeable lens, but to be honest I would probably just purchase the wide angle lens. I'm just being cautious since this will be a big purchase for me. any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

PS: Is there any recommendation of good places online to purchase these cameras?

 

[Will Vincent]

Good place to shop? B&H Photo

Personally I think I would go with the Panasonic over any other.. in my (and seemingly most other peoples) opinion, it is the BEST quality prosumer camera available in the miniDV format as of now. Alternately you could wait a little while 'til the new HD camera from Panasonic comes out. Yes, Sony beat them to it, but Panasonic's quality has been destroying the competition for the past couple years in this area, so it'd be the one worth waiting for if you decided to go HD..

Ideally, if you wanted to do HD though, you should go with a higher end 'professional' camera, and that's not really feasible until you can make the purchase without feeling like its a 'big purchase'... or in other words, you NEED it, rather than just WANT the cool new toy on the block, because you're actively working on a (or many) project(s) that will likely get the kind of distribution that makes it worthwhile.

Hope that helps a little.. I feel like I've been preachy lately..

 

[Gustamize]

No, not preachy at all. I appreciate the comment. I have a few little skits I have filmed and I am in need for a better camera almost embarassed to admit I have an older sharp Mini DV cam, that I bought 4 or 5 years ago. When Mini DV's came out. I don't need to HD, I was just considering it since it was in my price range. I know that in a few weeks there will be a few more HD cam coming out and Personally I can wait. Now you recommend the DVX100A over the Canon XL2? Which I have read the specs and the only thing I was timid on purchasing the DVX100A because in the reviews I have read (like on CNet) that the 16:9 was just a picture squeeze. Sorry to sound so wishy washy. I know which I end up getting will be a major upgrade.

Now does anyone out there have good tips on capturing good audio. I was thinking of going with a Boom Mic, and having run straight into either the DVX100a or the XL2(whichever I end up). I have heard both have good sound capturing and that using a XLR Boom would be good enough. I will be filming inside, and sometimes outside. Because our shorts always had audio quality issues, because the my old Cam would not let you plug an external mic into it. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Will Vincent]

you could run that way, or might not be a bad idea to pick up a couple of wireless Lav's too, for those times when there's just not enough room for a boom. in which case you'd need a mixer and then it might just be easier to record on a seperate unit.

 

[Shaw]

The DVX100A has two modes of 16:9

- letterbox (masks the top and bottom)
- squeeze (digital 16:9 effect)

So yeah, it does not have native 16:9 built in. The XL2 certainly has the upper hand in this case. I personally find the DVX to do quite fine in squeeze mode but I haven't been transfering to film or anything either. If you plan on burning to DVD I'm not sure you would see much of a difference between the two on an interlaced display (interlaced requires a lower resolution so you don't get "line twitter"). You would probably see the difference on a HD progressive scan display though.

A good example of what the DVX can do can be found at http://www.pinelakefilms.com. The footage there has actually been cropped to 2.35:1 which means these are about half the res the camera can provide (and then encoded for the web of course). Still, it will give you a sense for the colors etc.

 

[lux]

"Canon USA, as a very conservative company, has a policy which dictates that they will not show any product publicly that is not currently available. Therefore they do not display prototypes or mock-ups of concept cameras. Given the history of Canon with the DV format, it may take some time before they enter the HDV market. Considering that they did not introduce a DV camcorder until November 1997, more than two years after other manufacturers were shipping DV camcorders, it's quite possible that history will repeat itself with Canon's previously established wait-and-see stance towards new video formats." Quote from www.hdvinfo.net

looks like you might be waiting a while for that xl series hdv camera.

 

[King Goldfish]

Shaw is the masked mode used for cropping purposes? Like in vegas it shows exactly where to crop ? Otherwise i dont understand its purpose. unless the guys at the film festivals know how to adjust it properly. Sorry, not experienced and was just wondering. I usually just shoot in full 4:3 and crop at 720x405 or 720x380. it doesnt squeeze the scene and fits fairly nicely on the widescreens. the matt box (at least on my HDTV) just forces the scene to squeeze no matter what setting i have it on. of course im not using composite cables but rather the computers DVD player or media player and DV or VGA outputs.

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

get the panny...

I read the threads on the other camera question and it seems like the Canon XL2 and the Panasonic AG-DVX100A are the 2 top choices. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything mentioned about the Sony HDR-FX1? I'm sure I'm not the only one that is dreaming for a XL2, but I do have the funds to purchase either the Sony or the Panasonic, but I have to save more pennies to purchase the XL2. I am afraid that if I opt to purchase the XL2, canon in a year will put out a better model (I know that's a risk with everything) but let's say a HD version of the camera (which eventually they will). The reason why I figure to get the Sony or Panasonic I could get 2-3 years worth of use out of it then I won't feel as bad when Canon does come out with an HD Version of the XL Series camera. The features I am most interested in is 16:9, and the 24p, but HD is the newer tech. I like the option that XL2 has the interchangeable lens, but to be honest I would probably just purchase the wide angle lens. I'm just being cautious since this will be a big purchase for me. any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

PS: Is there any recommendation of good places online to purchase these cameras?

I too would highly recommend the DVX100A for the following reasons...

Price --Even when the new Panasonic HiDef camcorder comes out from under the sheet in a few days, you're very likely going to have to purchase quite a few P2 cards for acquisition. Not cheap. I would have to assume that we're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K for the camera and enough P2 cards to feel comfortable in the field... Maybe more.

Unless I was doing a transfer to film, the electronic squeeze mode on the DVX100A works great. I have now been able to have my short film on DVD projected on 3 different digital projectors at three different theaters, on three different screens and distances. The picture held up very well at all three places and was noticibly SHARPER than all the other films (shot on different cameras) screened along with my short. That made me real happy. Of course, if you're going for the transfer to film, you'll need the anamorphic adapter (which I just purchased) for 33% more resolution. A must-have for film.

In February, I went to DVFilm.com's 24P film school and was BLOWN AWAY by both the 4:3 transfer to 35mm film as well as the anamorphic adapter transfer to 35mm film. It was clearly as good as many 16mm films I have seen blown up to 35mm. The XL2 was also good but still contained a slightly harsh video look... A little too clean or something... Everyone in the class noticed it but to be fair, it could have been the settings... But compared to the Panasonic... It reminded a few of us that come from a film background of the difference between Kodak and Fuji stock i.e., Kodak being a little warmer and organic and Fuji being a little more harsh and cool.

The Panasonic is a breeze to handle and for guerilla filmmaking, doesn't get that noticed unless you have a huge mattebox on it.

The new HiDef Panny that's coming out sounds great and I know I will eventually get one but right now, even editing the footage could be a problem for the average low budget filmmaker who already has a basic editing setup... This is still being debated so we'll see. I just got my DVX100A back in September so I'm in no hurry to change cameras right now since I have everything I need to use my DVX easily.

A lot of it depends on your end result... If you're FOR SURE going to film, wait for the HiDef Panny... If that's not realistic right now (which for most of us, it's not) get the DVX or the XL2. If you're strapped for cash, get the DVX.

I like the features on the DVX enough to prefer it OVER the XL2 even though it is a great camera. I know someone who just got one and it looks cool... Footage looks good but there's definitely something about the footage from the DVX that I prefer... Maybe it's just me, but it looks closer to film in my opinion... Both in color and movement. You should definitely COMPARE the two side by side and see what you prefer before making the purchase...

Good luck!

filmy

 

[Shaw]

I'm going to wait on a HD camera until there is a viable distribution medium and/or I decide to use it to shoot a feature.

EDIT: Sorry, Mr. Goldfish, missed your reply. The letterbox mode records black bars over the top and bottom of the footage while in camera. You can either add these bars in post or actually crop your footage.

It sounds like you have your computer hooked up to a TV?

 

[Gustamize]

Hey Guys, I appreciate every post I received to my question. Lots of good points and information. I definately will be holding off on the HD cams that are currently out on the market. Just like with any technology, it gets better as you wait. I've been hesistant to post since I originally asked the question, because after expressing to my wife my choices (before my post here), she asked her dad. Long story short. He decided to surprise me and let me borrow the cash I needed for an XL2, and ordered one. Then I saw the preference towards the DVX so in my mind I was just thinking "Whoa, should have I just gotten the DVX instead" after all I think the best recommendation comes from People that actually use the camera and not from a sales man or an article. I figure we're all in the same boat, but with different expierences, but all have the love to make short films, skits, or full length movies. Maybe I'm going on and on, but I just want to say thats for your opinions and time to read my post hope to post more later.

 

[Shaw]

I think you will be quite happy with the XL2 . It's a great camera; honestly, I wouldn't worry about it at all! The differences between the XL2 and DVX are mostly personal preferences. Both are capable of superb images!