XLR and 1/4

[michael]

I have just decided to record audio seperatly from the video camera, and instead onto a audio recorder. However, I can't find any that have any XLR inputs. I found a cable that has a female XLR input and a male 1/4 jack and I would just like to know that if I use this cable, will I lose any audio quality?

-thanks in advance for any responses

 

[clive]

1/4 jack

Your i/4 jack is always going to be the weak link in your set up, as they are prone to noise and don't cope well with movement.

What I don't understand is why you are recording your sound separately from your video? Sound into modern DV cameras is usually very good, especially if you can go XLR in. Any sound recording equipment that only has 1/4 jack in, is likely to provide worse sound recording than your camera. My guess is that you are probably looking at mini-disc. If you are, you should realise that mini-disc has quite a lot of compression on it as it records, which really limits your options in post production.

Hope this helps

 

[film8ker]

Rent a DAT (Digital Audio Tape) recorder. I’d also be best to have someone run it. You’ll also need a boom op. Keep in mind you’ll have to slate and synchronize the sound in post. You’ll also need a machine that will let you capture into whatever editing system you’re using.

DAT will give you superior audio. The sound on the tape is usually okay depending on what you’re doing. What kind of camera do you have? If you have a shotgun mike, why not go into the camera? It’d be better than 1/4 because if what you’re trying to record into doesn’t have XLR, it’s probably no better quality than the tape anyway - I could be wrong though.

 

[michael]

Hey, thanks alot for your help and responses. I have the Canon XL1S but my main concern with recording directly into the camera is that I don't want to limit the movement of the camera by hooking chords into the back or risk anyone tripping. I could of course go wireless but really don't have the money. Because of your responses I think I will record directly into the camera. However, on the Canon XL1S, is it possible to hook up multiple mikes so that the audio records on seperate tracks? I am just trying to find what will be easiest for editing in Post and of course to get the best sound quality.

-thanks again for your responses, they were a big help!

 

[clive]

Good crew will solve your problems

A good sound recordist should be able to keep up with your camera movements, without retricting you. If you are clear about letting them know where you are going before you do each set up. If you do a couple of camera rehearsals, you should be able to sync your movements.

To make sure that the cable doesn't become a trip hazzard, put a camera assistant behind you, to bash (hold and move) the cable for you. S/he can not only make sure that the cable is kept safe, but also watch your back for you, making sure you don't trip with the camera. If you have to move backwards with the camera, get the camera assistant to put one hand in the small of your back to stop you if you are walking into a hazzard (a kerb, a stray pedestrian, a lampost etc).

Just one more camera tip, not really related to sound. If you have your right eye to the eye piece, most people would close their left eye to contentrate on the image through the camera. If you are doing lots of hand held movement, it pays to keep both eyes open. I know this feels a bit weird at first, but you get used to it. Not only does this allow you to watch where you are going, it also allows you to see what is about to come into frame.

 

[film8ker]

Good advice on the eyes. How much movement are you going to be doing? Jumping, running around? A cord will give a surer and stronger signal unless you get really good wireless. Just get 50’ and draft a PA to be a cable wrangler. S/he just keeps up with the cable and makes sure no one trips. It has to be done all the time on film sets with video assist.

Why would you want to record from multiple sources onto each track? By recording into the camera there is no operator to monitor the levels, so what is typically done is one line is run to the Audio 1 input and set so it records on both tracks. Set track one to -1Db. Set track two to -3Db or so. This way if there is an unexpected loud noise and you blow out track one, track two will be rescueable. Then in post you just duplicate track 2 to regain faux stereo. If you have a stereo mike it should have two tails. Audio from widely separated sources can be disorienting on a stereo track. The only time I can think of that I would want to give up the security of that second track is if I was tapping into a music source on track 2 and still needed a mic on 1. But then again, that’d be so much easier to do an a separate sound source.

 

[clive]

One more thing

Film8ker reminded me of something that I've seen other guys do. If you are not using a stereo mic, go into one leg off the boom mic and use the on board mic, on the other leg as a back up. This is not a bad practice, if you haven't got your sound going through a mixer. Obviously, if you're using a stereo mic, you'll need both inputs.

Of course the sound from the on board mic is going to be dire, but in an absolute emergency it might be all you have.

Even though you are going into the back of the camera, you can still have the sound guy monitor the levels. The sound goes from the mic into the mixer and then out of the mixer, into the back of the camera. This means having a separate boom op. This is well worth the effort. If you do this, you should need the on board mic as a back up.

 

[film8ker]

Quite right Clive about the mixer. I was assuming go directly from the shotgun into the camera and not through a mixer.

Also, michael, don't forget to wear headphones! A mixer should be listening, but if you're running straight from the mic into the camera, the boom op (or camera op if the boom is too far away) should always listen through the headphones because otherwise you could have a problem and not know it. It really sucks to get to post and everything's crap because you recorded noise.