which computer/camera???in need of help!

M

moviequeen

am having a dilema, and in need of some advice... :rolleyes:

I want to buy a computer so that i can edit my films, and I have been looking into buying a mac. However my budget is a little stretched (i want to buy a mini-dv camera too to input the footage) and so I have been trying to buy a second-hand mac. however, i have heard that mac changes their design every 5 years and after that i wont be able to purchase spare parts, so if anything goes wrong, i'll be in trouble. I was told this at an apple shop though, so I dont know if this is actually the case, or were they just trying to get me to buy new? Also, would a second hand mac (G3,4?) be able to handle the programme, as the guy i spoke to was trying to get me to buy a G5. My second option is to get my friend to build me a PC and install Avid Xpress on it and i can do this for under £500, but I have heard that final cut pro is a lot more widely used and a lot more user friendly. I also need a cheap mini-dv camera that i can use to install footage onto the programme, my last one, a JVC broke as the tape mechanism kept dying, but i've heard this is common with all mini-dv cameras. I'm just looking for a cheap one, I can hire any equipment I need for shoots.
Any ideas for my computer/camera crisis?!
 
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MQ--I have always been a PC user. Not that I have anything against Mac, but my dad used to work for IBM so...I've always had PCs. Here is my opinion, for what its worth:

Software--I have tested Pinnacle Studio, Pinnacle Liquid, Adobe Premiere, and Sony Vegas. Studio is cheap and easy, but is limited and can be unreliable. Liquid and Premiere are sophisticated, but not very user-friendly (without a lot of learning). Sony Vegas is sophisticated and much more user-friendly (intuitive) than Liquid or Premiere. Vegas also makes a "LITE" version ($99 US) called Vegas Home Studio, which appears to have the same basic structure as the full version ($500 US), but is missing some of the more advanced features and has fewer tracks to mix with. I bought Vegas Home Studio and I really like it. Plus, if I ever decide to upgrade to the full professional version, I can upgrade my Home Studio version without having to pay full price for the pro.

PC--If you go PC, you should get at least a Pentium 4 (or equiv.) processor. You should MAX out your RAM. Try to get at least 1GB of RAM. If you have too little RAM, your video will have stutters when the RAM clears its cache by dumping your imported data to the hard drive. Also, if you notice stutters in your video always occurring at a consistent time, that is usually a "Ran Out of RAM" issue, and you should either get more RAM or break your import into smaller segments. You should install a second hard drive to store all of your data files. I have found that video can have stutters if you write data to the "C:\" drive while the operating system and importing software program files are also running on that same drive. You should figure about 12 GB of drive space for one hour of imported video (at full DV quality). And you will need a firewire card/port to import the video.

As for the cameras--if you are looking for a cheap one, then there are plenty of them out there in the $300 US range (maybe less if on sale). Can't really recommend one over the other. I have a Samsung like that. I already sent it in once to be repaired after 9 months of use. But like you said, it sounds like that may be a common problem with other brands as well.

I have no experience with Macs. so I'll let someone else speak on that.
 
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Panasonic makes 3 camera with a 3ccD chipset.


PV GS-120,200 and 400 model
The 120 and 200 I believe are 1/6 inch chips while the 400 is 1/4?

the 120 cost me 699 USD, The 200 I believe was about 900 and the 400 model was 1300USD


Vegas is around 500 bucks as John mentions but comes with awesome plugins and is easy to use.
Its basically drop and chop. you can do wonders with just basic video footage. Though it may not
be anything close to Adobe Premier, it works for alot of people. It has Bluescreen plugs (chroma key)
it has film effects like grain and jitter and tinting. it has light flares for making explosions
more realistic (assuming you will have Combustion or 3DS max.. but I doubt it if you're on
a budget)

and what I like best is the Gate audio plugin. Its real easy to use. you just adjust the time
and it will filter out background noises like cars driving by (as long as they dont honk) or
if you're doing stuff in the garage and have alot of electrical interference and humming sounds
it will help alot if not eliminate it entirely. You just have to adjust the settings. Its not
boom quality but it will help make your audio alot enjoyable. You can adjust pitch and speed
and add base for a more quality sound.

those are just a few of the plugins that come with it.
 
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are these software programmes for editing for a PC? I used Avid Xpress in University for editing all my previous films, how does that compare to the software you are talking about? Also, I'm in Britain, I've heard i can pick up cameras/computers in America for a fraction of the price they are here, is there any places you think I should check out that will ship out my order?
 
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You should install a second hard drive to store all of your data files. I have found that video can have stutters if you write data to the "C:\" drive
Click to expand...

This one if VERY important. It's amazing how much of a difference it can make. Try to get fast hard drives too if you can.

As mentioned, Vegas seems to be tremendously popular. I started out with Premiere so I always found Vegas to be highly non-intuitive. This is, I am sure, due to my first intro being Adobe. Vegas has some very nice features and is a very capable editor. For what it's worth, Adobe also makes a lite version of Premiere Pro. Can't remember the name at the moment.

Adobe tends to be a mixed bag. I love photoshop and After Effects. Premiere Pro still has problems at times. For instance, it doesn't handly 24pN footage well at all (it can handle 24pA quite well) and it can be a bit buggy if your system is out of alignment. Still, it's quite a powerful tool and very useable.
 
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I've started with Premiere 5.1 back in the day. When Final Cut Pro 1 came out I tried it and have used it ever since (now version 4.5 HD). I like it more then Avid Xpress and Premiere, plus it looks cooler than any of them (I always hated that windows cray color, or the cheezy Windows XP look). Anyway, I'm sure I don't need to go into details about what FCP can do.

So, my advice, if you want to use FCP (any version) get a G4 with Dual Processors (ie. a dual 866 would be nice), 2GB of ram (it's not very expensive), and add another internal HD for capturing the video to.

I used to have a 500Mhz G4 with 1.5GB of Ram which i would say is at least the same as a 1.6Ghz P4 (I was a lot faster than my PC which was 933Mhz with 800Mhz RDRAM memory). Windows is also not as effecient with dual processors as Mac OS X. And I never had to reformat my Macs, whereas, with Windows I used to do it every 6 months and not because I wanted to. On an unrelated note, Apple had a really cool video about the Megahertz Myth (why a G4 with half the Mhz as a P4 is faster).

I never heard of the parts thing you mentioned. I've always been extremely pleased with Apple support. Besides that any G3-G5 is really easy to upgrade with RAM, HDs, etc. Get whatever you can afford. Apple is more expensive but has much higher resale value than any PC. Look on Ebay. G4 from two years ago are still expensive. You can get a fast new PC for $900, but if you sell it two days later, you already lost $300.

Anyway, I'm tired and rambling. If you want to use FCP, any dual G4 should be fine.
 
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moviequeen said:
My second option is to get my friend to build me a PC and install Avid Xpress on it and i can do this for under £500, but I have heard that final cut pro is a lot more widely used and a lot more user friendly.
Click to expand...

If your friend can hook you up with Avid Express and a viable system for that price, then go for it. Avid is an industry standard NLE, and the nice thing about it is that the interface is the same from Avid's Free DV all the way to up it's highest end film composer. Once you learn one, you can easily move to the others.

Any ideas for my computer/camera crisis?!
Click to expand...

As for the camera, if all you're looking for is a deck, then any miniDV camera with a firewire port will work.
 
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I would go with a PC on the basis of cost alone. Apple make some awesome machines, but a PC that will perform equivilent functions is generally significantly less expensive. Many editors consider a G5 with dual processors the penultimate editing platform - but it doesn't come cheap.

If you do go the Mac route, a G3 will not handle video. A G4 might, but realistically you would want a G5. For PC... I run a 2.2 GH machine with 512 MB of RAM and it runs pretty smoothly... though I would certainly suggest going for more RAM. I plan to upgrade at some point, myself.

As far as Software is concerned, I think the PC has the Mac beat in that regard as well. Not that FCP is a bad program - from all account it's superb - but it's more or less your only option. PCs let you chose your software, which is a bonus (imo). And there are many awesome options: Adobe Premier, Vegas, Avid, etc.

I'd say, for the price, you can't beat the PC you mentioned. A similar Mac with FCP will probably cost you several thousand?
 
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I can get a G5 for £999.00 - they offer a six months interest free option though, so I can pay it slowly (and live off of beans and toast 4 the next 6 months!)

For that price i get;
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive

I've been checking ebay though, if i can get a powerful enough g4 then that would be ideal. Thanks for all your thoughts, I'm still undecided,but am now more thinking of getting a PC, as at least I'll then have cash to spare to spend on a camera and I can have it custom built and my technical support is only a phone call away (in the form of my very helpful mate), so maybe thats the way I should go....or maybe not...argh, my head hurts!
 
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There's also the option of getting a cheaper mac, say teh imac G5, or if you're REALLY on a budget get an emac or mac mini. . . but if you get a mac, the G5 is very necessary if you plan on doing any serios HD. . . I have an emac, and it does everything I need it to.
 
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For that price i get;
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that you will almost certainly have to upgrade your RAM and Hard drive space. So tack another few hundred at least onto that price tag?

I would use caution on eBay. There are certainly some good deals to be had, but buying used electronics is always a risky proposition. There's a lot than can be wrong with them, especcially with a computer.

I still think fior the money a custom PC would be your best option. But do explore your others - obviously the most important thing is that you're happy with your setup.
 
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It's All About Output!

My Dear Queen:
Your decisions must be driven by where you want your movie to reside. Do you want to release on DVD (Gads, I hope not), Internet distribution, or (for Heaven's sake) film.
IF you want to release a cinema to be viewed in movie houses, you will need to provide a 24fps print with optical sound at the very least. As you are quoting your dilemma in terms of pounds-sterling, I assume you are in Merry Olde England and thus in possession of PAL video gear which is good. PAL origination gives you brilliant colour density, excellant resolution and (here's the edge) 25fps timebase. With these conditions, you are ideally suited to go directly to cinema as your video will look excellent transferred to film and I promise you, _nobody_ will see the 1fps difference in motion. If audio timbre is critical, you can process your soundtrack through a Lexicon and increase the pitch by 4% which will raise the voice pitch to compensate for the slower projection speed: 24fps for a 25fps product.
Otherwise, if you are shooting NTSC, you will originate with reduced colour definition, poorer resolution and will be obliged to process your original by forcing a pulldown to get the 30fps original to a 24fps master. This will wreak havoc. My recommendation is to convert the NTSC original to a PAL master (old, tried&true technology), then strike a cinema print from the PAL. It won't look as good as if you shot it in PAL (you can't get good cheese out of an old sock), but if your content has literary merit, you will obtain legs anyway and won't need socks.
HOpe this helps, your loyal subject:
William of the Frame-Relay.
 
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Oh, by the way...
You need at least a 500MHz processor, Firewire disks at 7200RPM, and Adobe Premiere.
In PC-Land this is easy. Keep your media off your system disks and on the firewire drives. The application runs in memory (you should have at least 256Meg), but stutters when the system disk is used as a media disk. This is very important.
Macintosh is a paininthebutt. Apple offers no clear upgrading path and what works today won't work tomorrow when your needs grow. Stick to PC so you can built without replacing.
Love you=Bill
 
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