Whew just finished reading .........

F

film670223

Whew! Just finished reading ( The film school in a book! Making Movies by John Russo )

It's a little dated but I'm sure it gives a quick over view of the movie industry. It's helping me understand why the Slasher movies are so popular with Indie film makers. It's all in the market. There is a lot to do with budgets, pre production, and distribution I hadn't considered before reading this book. I think it's a good book to have read before I read Persistance of Vision.

I think before I get that started though, I'll finish Screenwriting for dummies. This book seems to fall a little short of what I was looking for. I guess I was looking for something that gets more involved with story structure and plot development.

Anyone have any thoughts ?

Mike :)
 
I've not read either of those books and shy away from methodology when applied to scripts. The truth is you can write anything that you can imagine and shoot anything that you've got the creativity find a technical solution for.

However, I think that there are some simple basics to story telling which stangely enough a lot of people forget when script writing. The first is that the film generally has to be the story of a person, to whom something happens and they deal with that situation or not somehow. This may sound obvious, but actually quite of lot of people write scripts the other way round, that is, events happening to people. If you put events at the centre of your story it will always be unreadable and awful on screen, if you put the characters at the center of your story it will stand a much better chance of being readable. So, in most slasher pics the story is about the person who survivies, not about the killer who is usually just the event that happens to them. The only exception I can think of in this genre would be Michael Mann's Manhunter, where although the central character is the cop/profiler the killer has a three dimensional character and goes on his own journey.

The structure of the film is just a chain of events "... and because of that this happens and X does Y (and this means Z to the character)"
or for example ... "because his Mother is killed Anakin Skywalker gives in to his anger and murders the whole tribe and this means that he has started his decent into dark side of the force"

From a practical point of view this means your plot can be broken down into a string of one sentence events that happen to your central character. This means that you can do your plotting on file cards or postit notes before you start writing, which is fantastic because it give you time to play with different senarios before you commit to the grunt work actually writing.

The actual writing is then a piece of cake because you're not working out your story you are just doing the descriptive work. So then all you have to do is describe what is happening and if your chracter has to say something in response to what's happening then that's the dialogue.

The whole process isn't anymore complicated than that. Except that your script is only ever as good as your understanding of people. A good piece of script writing software "Final Draft" and a little research will show you how a script needs to be laid out on the page.

I hope this helps, but in the final analysis the only way to get good at writing is to do it all the time for a lot of years. I've been writing professionally now for fifteen years and I'm only just starting to get good at it.
 
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The Screenwriter's Bible is generally considered a must read for new screenwriters.

Also, a lot of members (clive, FilmJumper, others) know a whole lot about the process. Never hesitate to ask a question here. If we don't know the answer, we can find it.

Poke
 
" This may sound obvious, but actually quite of lot of people write scripts the other way round, that is, events happening to people. If you put events at the centre of your story it will always be unreadable and awful on screen, if you put the characters at the center of your story it will stand a much better chance of being readable."

The more experience I gain in screenwriting, the more I find this to be true. I think there's a old saying that goes something like "if you create an interesting character, the audience will follow him/her anywhere."

Another key to creating a good story is tension or conflict. I think writers forget this a lot as well (myself included). The main conflict of a script obviously is a necessity. but small conflicts throughout the script keep the audience engaged -- even something quick and simple. An example I always think of is Karen Allen's drinking contest at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's a great scene because it introduces a character, shows you how this isn't your typical "pretty girl," and keeps you in suspense as to who will win the contest.
 
Here's a few other books I recommend on various topics:

Character/Story Development:
Creating Unforgettable Characters - Linda Seger
Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes & Heroines - Tami D. Cowden
45 Master Characters - Victoria Schmidt
20 Master Plots - Ronald B. Tobias
Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations - Georges Polti

Directing:
Directing Actors - Judith Weston
Film Directing Shot by Shot - Steve Katz
Film Directing, Cinematic Motion - Steve Katz
Film Directing Fundementals: From Script to Screen - Nicholas Proferes
Directing Feature Films - Mark Travis

Acting:
The Power of the Actor: The Chubbuck Method - Ivana Chubbuck

Editing:
The Eye is Quicker - Richard D. Pepperman, Paul Norlen

Producing/Financing/Budgeting/Distribution:
The Producer's Handbook (Book & CD-Rom) - John J Lee Jr.
The Complete Film Production Handbook, Third Edition (Book & CD-Rom) - Eve Light Honthaner
The Guerilla Filmmakers Movie Blueprint - Chris Jones
43 Ways to Finance Your Feature Film - John W. Cones
Film Budgeting - Ralph S. Singleton

Misc:
What They Don't Teach You In Film School - Tiara White, Camille Landau
$30 Film School - Michael W. Dean (Definately not the "End All, Be All", but if you can get past the 'punk rock' attitude, there's some helpful nuggets here)

That list should keep you busy for a while.. ;)
 
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Lots of good stuff!

Thank you !

Clive
I really like the posit idea. Focusing in on an event happening to someone and telling about it is like you said basic and overlooked. For some reason I was looking more for a panoramic view and trying to close down on individual things to tell about.

Will
Now thats a reading list !

Poke
I have seen that book and wondered if it has good info. I will begin my quest for it now.

T
I think you've hit on another one of my stumbling blocks " Another key to creating a good story is tension or conflict. " I have delt with lots of this in real life but putting it on paper is a compleetly different thing than going thru it.

How I chose what I am reading is: Simply winning a bulk-lot of books on Ebay and that has been my reading guide so far. With your list, the choices will become a much more refined list. I will still read the books I have though they are mostly on Directing, Cinamatography, Lighting, and blocking. Very few are dealing with writing.

thanks

Mike :)
 
Clive
I really like the posit idea. Focusing in on an event happening to someone and telling about it is like you said basic and overlooked. For some reason I was looking more for a panoramic view and trying to close down on individual things to tell about.
Click to expand...

I'd really like to take credit for it, but I got it from Chris Carter who wrote the X-Files.
 
Poke

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I just started reading The Screen Writer's Bible. Oh man! this is exactly what I've been looking for! I have been needing something that will break stories down to their basic parts and explain what is going on.

Just a little excited.

Sat down with my children and we started talking about what we would like to see in a story. My son want's knights, armor, swords with spiderman agility Hmmm? My daughter wants castles up to the sky with roses growing all over them and lots of baked goods ( cakes, Pies, Etc. )? Me thinks she takes after her daddy; let them eat cake! .......or pie.....maybe cinamon rolls ;)

Mike :)

I thought it would be better to have started talking instead of telking. Hmm gonna have to look that one up.
 
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film670223 said:
Poke

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I just started reading The Screen Writer's Bible. Oh man! this is exactly what I've been looking for! I have been needing something that will break stories down to their basic parts and explain what is going on.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I was turned on to that book by many IndieTalk members - too many to name, you all know who you are.

If you want to thank someone thank the author dave@keepwriting.com.

Poke
 
In another thread here on IndieTalk, I talked about structure and through that structure, you can figure out what works and what doesn't. Structure, whether it's 3 act, 5 act, 7 act or 9 act doesn't have to be formulaic. True, read a lot of screenwriting books and they will definitely talk about specific plot points you need to hit and when to hit them...

Clive is right about basics of storytelling. If you've ever read Joseph Campbell, you begin to understand that storytelling, in and of itself, carries with it, specific types of information. This information is fairly consistent throughout the world with storytellers and has been so throughout time.

We are more or less (I'm talking about the majority of the general public) hardwired to respond to certain kinds of storytelling. One example that helps support this theory is listening to music.

Take just about any song that sounds good to you personally. The notes are written to be played in a specific order. If we then talke all those notes and rearrange them in a totally different order... An order where the notes in no way fit next to one another, we end up not liking the music. In other words, we are and probably have always been hardwired to sense a certain order of things. Things could be a things to do list where we prioritize them in a certain way, or things could be a simple melody that sounds pleasing to the ear. Keep messing with the order and you can end up with chaos.

Don't worry though... I'm always up for a little chaos... LOL.

So it goes with storytelling and why we normally start with a beginning leading to the middle, and finishing at the end of a story. I'm not talking screenwriting right now. I'm talking storytelling. A thousand years ago, it would have been difficult for someone to tell a story in a different order. As we progress as human beings, so do our minds. This progression allows us a little room to start changing the order of the story BUT don't we still make sure that we tell all the best parts of the story? We do if we want our audience to enjoy it.

If I tell you a story about how I got up in the morning, brushed my teeth, took a shower, dried off, got dressed, ate breakfast, brushed my teeth again, drove to work, worked eight hours, drove back home, ate dinner, watched television, went to bed, do I really have much of a story?

Not yet...

But if I throw in some conflict, the story gets better...

I woke up this morning listening to a phone call my wife was having. In less than a minute, I realized she is having an affair with this person she's talking to.

I tried not to show any emotion, but I couldn't brush my teeth because I was crying so hard.

While in the shower, I completely broke down!

As I dried my body off, all I could see were images of my wife and this person... together.

It took me forever to get dressed.

My wife had breakfast ready for me but I just couldn't eat.

I drove to work and got there really late but I didn't care.

I didn't get any work done... Instead, I just sat there imagining my wife with this person doing all kinds of things she should be doing with me instead.

On the way home, I picked up a six pack of my favorite beer. I never drink and drive but I decided to give it a try.

She wasn't home when I got home. She left a note saying she would be very late. I need more beer.

I tried to watch TV but everything kept reminding me of my wife and the guy she's screwing around with.

I cried myself to sleep.

--See the difference?

Have you ever stood with someone who was telling you a story and it was oh so very boring? Why? Probably because nothing happened!

Conflict. Large and small. Conflict makes a story compelling. I can't tell you how many indie shorts I've seen that are very similar to what I outlined above... The boring part. If I have to watch another character that has not yet been introduced to me get out of bed, put on his clothes, brush his teeth, etc. I swear I'm gonna upchuck... LOL.

At least if someone is going to do that to us, then I want to see some conflict. Maybe the shirt has a funny smell... Maybe it shrunk... Maybe it falls apart when he puts it on... Give me something!

But back to structure...

I think you can create a plan of what you want to hit upon in your story. You can even follow all the basic structure of any Hollywood film... Just not the formula. Let me see your character do what he's supposed to do but just let me see it in a new and exciting way that I've never seen before! And if you really want to suck me in, let me see that something different RIGHT WHEN I'M EXPECTING the usual crap I always see! That's when you will get my attention. That's when I'm going to sit up in my theater seat. That's when I'm going to lean forward and pay more attention...

Rant over... LOL.

filmy
 
Go! filmy Go!

I must agree. I don't know much but I do know I like to understand what I am watching and I like to feel something about a character. As an example I watched Citizen Kane for the first time today then I watched called Slipstream from 1989. What a contrast in films.

Citizen Kane grabed me in the first scene and didn't let me go until the end. In Slipstream was trying to figure out what and who the movie is about? One good thing about it was all the Ultralight flying. I would like to try it sometime. I'll let the kids get thru college first.

Mike :)

I just read the original post; I must have been in a mood or tired. Way to hard on Slipstream. Ouch!
 
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