Whats your film postproduction workflow?

[jakub_friso]

Hello guys,

After the last project I realised that the workflow in postproduction of film is extremely important and I would be interested to know yours, so that I can see what I am maybe doing wrong or just to see different options of workflow on film editing. I will just list you mine and be free to give me opinion on it, thank you ...

1. Raw Footage cut with the director (I usually shoot with Sony NE - EA50 that shoots internally on AVC - HD codec)
2. When everything is edited to final form, if the project needs it, I ADD SPECIAL EFFECTS with After Effects
throught Dynamic Link
3. Then I export whole project to Adobe Speedgrade for color correction/grading
5. Export graded footage from Speedgrade back to Premiere as DPX image sequence (uncompressed format of every single frame as a photo, similar to Cineon)
Which nests all the different shots and cuts in one footage.
6. If noise was added due to color correction/grading I cut shots from the nested DPX sequence and add Reduce Noise plugin (Neat Video)
7. Than comes the sound special effects and music
8. And final export (usually H264 codec and MP4 format)

I still havent figured out the Noise Reduction part if it should be before or after the color correction/grading.
And another note is that when I was reducing noise in Premiere on DPX footage in last project, some shots started flickering with plugin applied. In some of them I could reduce the flickering problem with manually adjusting noise profiles but 3 or 4 shots were really problematic so I had to prerender them in AVI uncompressed with noise reduction applied and reduce noise on the prerendered AVI footage again to remove that flickering problem ...
I know it should not be like that but that was my last solution after manual building of profile
didnt worked out ...

 

[Sweetie]

2. When everything is edited to final form, if the project needs it, I ADD SPECIAL EFFECTS with After Effects
throught Dynamic Link
3. Then I export whole project to Adobe Speedgrade for color correction/grading

Why use Dynamic Link with After Effects but export for Speedgrade? What version are you using? Later versions link back and forth.

Workflow really depends on the needs of the project. I see you don't have an audio sync, or mixing, client reviews, sign off etc.

Noise reduction. Depending on what you're doing in steps 3 and 5 (no step 4 I now notice) you may be introducing noise unnecessarily. Noise reduction is usually before the color correction & grading, though not always.

 

[jakub_friso]

I am using CS6 and everytime I select "Export to Adobe Speedgrade" i get error message in the Speedgrade, but the error is just in the sense that it didnt linked with the footage but the footage shows up with no problem I just have to export it back to Premiere...

And on that sound sync ... I am still low budget filmmaker so we dont use external audio recorder so we record internally but I think the sound sync should be done as a first step along with the editing of raw footage?
And the sound "mixing" as you said is in the step 7 I just call it more broadly...

I dont know where the client review should be in the workflow can you tell me? I usually send final work to the client for review and ask him if he wants some improvements.

I thought that the noise reduction could be first because when I reduce noise in the first place than there is no more noise to introduce in color correction/grading process.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

1. Raw Footage cut with the director (I usually shoot with Sony NE - EA50 that shoots internally on AVC - HD codec)
2. When everything is edited to final form, if the project needs it, I ADD SPECIAL EFFECTS with After Effects
throught Dynamic Link
3. Then I export whole project to Adobe Speedgrade for color correction/grading
5. Export graded footage from Speedgrade back to Premiere as DPX image sequence (uncompressed format of every single frame as a photo, similar to Cineon)
Which nests all the different shots and cuts in one footage.
6. If noise was added due to color correction/grading I cut shots from the nested DPX sequence and add Reduce Noise plugin (Neat Video)
7. Than comes the sound special effects and music
8. And final export (usually H264 codec and MP4 format)

As #7 is usually the most time consuming part of post production, it is started as soon as possible, as soon as there is a locked-off copy. VFX and grading are usually occurring at the same time as the music is being composed and the audio post is being done. And of course, there are additional, separate workflows for both the music and audio post.

G

 

[Sweetie]

I am using CS6

Argh. This is likely to be a big contributing part of your problem (that on top of your lighting and camera). The media encoder, not to mention other parts of the video suite, continually improves as time (upgrades) goes on.

I am still low budget filmmaker so we dont use external audio recorder

If you're not worried about sound, you shouldn't really be worried about color grading. Sound is way more important than grading. That's not to say that grading isn't important. It is very important. Then again, you may be working on projects that don't use dialogue?

I dont know where the client review should be in the workflow can you tell me? I usually send final work to the client for review and ask him if he wants some improvements.

For me, it depends on the client, their experience and sophistication, and the size of the project. In your workflow, I'd (at a minimum) have a client sign off before you hit a picture lock and it's sent to color grading. With your workflow, if the client wants a change in editing, don't you need to start your grading process from scratch?

You get the client to sign off at particular points where changes at a later point significantly increase the work (and cost) required to make those changes.

 

[WalterB]

...........

I dont know where the client review should be in the workflow can you tell me? I usually send final work to the client for review and ask him if he wants some improvements.

...............

For me it depends on the project and the client. (Some of them I already know for years: while one can see from a rough cut where the project is going, another one can't imagine what is still missing (so I only present almost finished cuts).
But pretty often the first review happens before grading and mixing to save time on doing things twice or more.
Actually, when there is voice-over involved, the first review has a temporary voice-over with my own voice. Not quit the best, but it serves as a 'place holder' and it shows whether it works or whether parts need to be rewritten before hiring a professional voice.

It is always a fine balance: you don't want to tweak all the little details and then throw them out, but you also don't want to terrify a client with a rough cut that is so rough it looks like Stevie Wonder edited it

 

[Alcove Audio]

As #7 is usually the most time consuming part of post production, it is started as soon as possible, as soon as there is a locked-off copy.

I don't know about the most time consuming, but it's pretty high up on the list. And yes, you want to get started as soon as there's a locked edit. My calculations for mini/micro budget projects are a MINIMUM of one (1) hour per linear minute for each audio post category - dialog edit, Foley, sound effects, music editing and mix. That's five (5) man-hours of work for each linear minute. So a ten (10) minute short would be a minimum of 50 man-hours of audio post work. Weapons, physical altercations, vehicles, technology, etc. increases the time substantially. So do "conforms" if you subsequently do further edits to the film (You try conforming several hundred audio tracks without an EDL!!!).

Just for fun, "Hollywood" budget films put in anywhere between four (4) and ten (10) man-hours of work per linear minute, sometimes more.

 

[sfoster]

I am a low budget film maker. but my sound equipment has about 4x the investment as camera

 

[jakub_friso]

I agree with you guys, its make sense to do audio effects and mixing at first when its not that hard to make changes to final cut than after final grade and special effects. I will try this workflow in my next project ... thank you

If you're not worried about sound, you shouldn't really be worried about color grading. Sound is way more important than grading. That's not to say that grading isn't important. It is very important. Then again, you may be working on projects that don't use dialogue?

I didnt quite get that answer I just understand that "sound is important" part but I dont work only on feature film i work on promo videos, videoclips too

On that "client review" part, It really depends on so much things - type of the project, client and his personality (for example if he is another artist or bussinesman) etc. so its really dynamic part of workflow, did I get it right guys?

thank you so much

 

[Sweetie]

I dont work only on feature film i work on promo videos, videoclips too

So you don't have people in your promo videos and/or videoclips? No one ever speaks?

its really dynamic part of workflow, did I get it right guys?

Yes and no.

It depends. It also depends on what you do. The workflow for news is different recording corporate meetings, though once you work out the best workflow for that type of job, you'll probably find there's little need to vary unless the client is willing to pay extra for that flexibility.

You can make a rigid workflow that incorporates all types of people with lots of if/then and loops. To design that specific workflow, you'll need plenty of experience.

The review process is about efficiency. It's so you can avoid doing extra work unnecessarily.

 

[jakub_friso]

You are right the sound I f*cked up, but I dont know about that "if dont care about audio, you should not care about color grade" thing. What do you mean by that? That if I have bad sound let the image be bad too?

 

[Sweetie]

Basically means, if the sound is crap (and often pushes you to make story decisions on what you can deliver due to poor sound, instead of telling the best story you can), the rest of the finishing process doesn't really matter.

There's no point in the more refined stuff if the basics are left to rot. It's a priority thing. The basics: Getting the story, performance, coverage, lighting, production design, sound and editing. Without all that, no amount of Foley, grading, color correcting, sound design, special effects, titles, music or a plethora of other areas is going to do make a lick of difference.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying grading isn't important. It is. It's very important. For it to make a difference, it needs a strong foundation. Sound is part of that foundation.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.​

What Sweetie is saying is that if you have neglected to do a proper job on the sound of the project then the rest of your "finishing" (color grading, etc.) is a waste of funds.

 

[Chris Tempel]

Based on the title, my workflow is:
AMA into Avid. Transcode and edit offline and picture lock
export reels to Resolve. Also start sound design.
Export VFX shots to Nuke. Comp and render as DNxHD. Bring back to Resolve.
Audio mix in ProTools
CC and Grade in Resolve
Create master and "prints" as needed

 

[jakub_friso]

Yes I fully understand importance of the sound but since we record on camera, not on DSLR, sound is not the best but its satisfying, the sound recorder is the second thing that we need after the proper lights so I will buy it for sure.
Anyway thank you guys for your help and for you advices in workflow