Theater screenings - impact of higher ISOs?

[IndiePaul]

Hi

Say you're lucky enough for your indie feature/short to be selected by a festival [has not happened for me yet but it has/will happen to some of us!]...

...you're going to get a screening in a theater.

The bulk of your feature/short was shot at ISO 200-400 but you have a few brief parts that were shot at ISO 1600.

Can I assume the ISO 1600 parts will look terrible on a theater screen? Or could it be acceptable [I want the ISO 1600 work to look similar to the ISO 200-400 scenes, not a mass of grain]?

Is there any way I can gauge this?

The largest screen I have available is a Panasonic 55" plasma - all our scenes look good on it.

Our gear: Canon 6D, Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8.

Most pros recommend not taking the 6D ISO beyond 1600 - but I'm assuming that was for TV presentation, not big screen theater.

Note: Thanks to AudioPostExpert I'm aware of festival theater audio requirements (5.1 etc) - just discussing visuals here. For those not, see these great threads:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=42773
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=43246

p.s. This may be better in the Festival Talk thread. Just thought the post-production folks may know quite a bit about this topic.

 

[RED ROBOT]

I think AudioPostExpert was just banned from the thread

The truth is that it depends on everything. Depends on the light you got , on the set design , on the clothing of your actors , but frankly 1600 ISO will bring you noisy image , I guess you could try to denoise it and then add some film grain .

Maybe you could show us the footage?

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

denoise it and then add some film grain.

^This^

I recently came across a thread for a plug-in called neat video. These are the kind of results you will get from it.

Thanks IDOM

 

[IndiePaul]

I think AudioPostExpert was just banned from the thread

Just didn't want to create this thread and do the usual thing - ignore audio.

Maybe you could show us the footage?

I would if I could NickysFX. The footage is sitting in a 2GB MOV file that I need to edit and I have not used Premier Pro yet so I have a big learning curve ahead of me.

If it helps - here'a a screen grab... The shot remains the same - a ring and cross are dropped by the killer near the hand as she walks past - it's all at ISO 1600, about 6 seconds of footage. The footage is going to be played back in slow motion. So we shot ALL-I 1280x720 at 60 FPS (our preference would have been for ALL-I 1920x1080 but it was not available at 60 FPS). Shutter speed 120. Aperture 5.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Just didn't want to create this thread and do the usual thing - ignore audio.



I would if I could NickysFX. The footage is sitting in a 2GB MOV file that I need to edit and I have not used Premier Pro yet so I have a big learning curve ahead of me.

If it helps - here'a a screen grab:

Doesn't look too bad. Not very sharp, but not very grainy.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I haven't used the 6D so I don't know where it falls in terms of noise at 1600, but that shot looks pretty clean to me. When it's in motion do you see crawling noise anywhere?

The sample Chimp posted above is from something I shot at ISO 6400 on a 5DmkII. Personally I'm fine up to 1600 on the mkII, once over that I start wanting to use noise reduction in post. The subject matter has a lot to do with it though - 1600 on an overall dark scene may show visible/objectionable noise in the shadows, while 1600 on an overall bright shot like yours doesn't look too bad.

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

I haven't used the 6D so I don't know where it falls in terms of noise at 1600, but that shot looks pretty clean to me. When it's in motion do you see crawling noise anywhere?

The sample Chimp posted above is from something I shot at ISO 6400 on a 5DmkII. Personally I'm fine up to 1600 on the mkII, once over that I start wanting to use noise reduction in post. The subject matter has a lot to do with it though - 1600 on an overall dark scene may show visible/objectionable noise in the shadows, while 1600 on an overall bright shot like yours doesn't look too bad.

I know the example I posted is much noiser than 1600, but you still get the idea of the capabilities of denoiser programs like Neat Video.

 

[IndiePaul]

Thanks ItDonnedOnMe and ChimpPhobiaFilms.

I haven't used the 6D so I don't know where it falls in terms of noise at 1600, but that shot looks pretty clean to me.

Yeah, looks good on a 55" plasma too. I'm just concerned as to what it would look like on a theater screen if we're lucky enough to be selected (by a festival). Or am I being paranoid? If it looks good on a 55" plasma, maybe it will be okay...

When it's in motion do you see crawling noise anywhere?

There's no crawling noise when I view it at all.

The sample Chimp posted above is from something I shot at ISO 6400 on a 5DmkII. Personally I'm fine up to 1600 on the mkII, once over that I start wanting to use noise reduction in post.

I know you've screened at a lot of 48 hour etc festivals. Have you had any ISO 1600 footage shown? Did it look okay on a theater screen or noisy?

 

[Cracker Funk]

You're being paranoid. Most film festivals screen DVDs. That's not even HD!

In my opinion, the only way it could be problematic, regardless of the film fest's projection specs, is if the shots in question stick out from the shots that surround them (and you should be able to notice it on any large HD monitor).

For what it's worth, I think your screengrab looks very nice. I think you'll be just fine.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I know you've screened at a lot of 48 hour etc festivals. Have you had any ISO 1600 footage shown? Did it look okay on a theater screen or noisy?

I've screened in all kinds of venues and never had a problem with the noise at ISO 1600 or below - of course I'm not certain if the 6D and 5D match at that setting, but from your example grab I think it's fine.

I think CF's right - you're worrying too much about it. If it looks ok to you from a couple feet away on your 55" plasma it should be fine on a mid-sized theatrical screen as well. If you have one noisy shot in the middle of a bunch of clean ones maybe it'll call more attention to itself, that's where you might want to use something like neat video to make the shot match the other ones. Otherwise just make sure your story is engaging - that's going to have more impact on the audience than slight noise in the picture.

 

[IndiePaul]

Thanks ItDonnedOnMe, Cracker Funk, ChimpPhobiaFilms and NickysFX.

Your advice has been hugely appreciated.

Sigh of relief from me - looks like I don't have to re-shoot that scene after all.

Otherwise just make sure your story is engaging - that's going to have more impact on the audience than slight noise in the picture.

Great advice. We (my do-director and I) are both seasoned script writers so we're all about story, story, story.