The lack of the safety track for phantom powered mics on the Zoom H6

D

Dan Wake

I'm tryng to find out a solution to bring the safety track rec for the Zoom H6.
Safety track allow to rec a second file at minus tot. db to prevent audio clipping. This can save the work if actors screams.
If actors scream using a limiter is not good because it compress the sound creating unnatural effect, something similar to a kazoo or a megaphone effect. so a professional recording tool should give you the possibility to have the safety track rec option to take two files with different decibel level recording. This will save the dynamic range of the voice if actors scream. And sometimes they will scream if you work in film industry.
So I decided to make a test with a Y cable and the Zoom H6 to find a diy solution but I failed the experiment. Current firmware is v2.0.
You can find my test here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT2MlOBvDmk
This test show that is impossible to have a working safety track rec for phantom powered mics on the Zoom H6.
Firmware v2.0 does not allow safety track rec for phantom powered mics.
I wrote to Zoom company to ask this feature in the next firmware update, it's the only solution.
The external unit Zoom EXH-6 will not solve this problem because it does not provide any phantom power.

Please guys if possible write to Zoom to ask them to implement the safety track in the zoom H6 channel 1-4 for phantom powered mics.

info@zoom.co.jp


update 04-22-2015.
the video test that I did is useless. I discovered the cable that I used for this test was broken/soldered strange and went in antiphase.
I will update you soon I'm going to make a new test with a new cable.
 
Last edited:
Sort by date Sort by votes
Dan Wake said:
... so a professional recording tool should give you the possibility to have the safety track rec option to take two files with different decibel level recording.
Click to expand...

I disagree, the vast majority of professional recording tools do not need the feature you're referring to (bracketing). I agree that bracketing can be a useful option on a professional *field* recorder, however:

1. The H6 is a prosumer "Handy Recorder", designed as a general purpose prosumer handheld/portable recorder, NOT as a professional field recorder!

2. When using an actual pro field recorder, bracketing is usually required only rarely, for very extreme circumstances. This is because: Pro field recording equipment is capable of cleanly recording a much wider dynamic range, the onboard limiters are much higher quality and more transparent and pro PSMs more skilled in not hitting the limiters hard in the first place! Therefore, even in the example you gave of an actor screaming, bracketing may not be necessary.

For the features and quality of a professional field recorder, have a look at "Sound Devices" products, which is probably the most popular brand of pro field recording equipment used in the film industry.

G
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Safety track is avaiable on many mid range/prosumer Tescam models and I suggest to anyone to get a recoder that have this feature. I did not wanted to tell this at first because I don't like to speak bad of a product and make free advertising to another.
My hope is that Zoom will introduce this feature in the next firmware update if we all write an email to them.

When I bought the Zoom H6 I thought that I could have the safety track. I had to buy this unit to have the safety track so it was not possible on channels 1-4.

ZMEXH6-2.jpg


Then I discovered this unit does not give any phantom power. So the use of the safety track for my phantom powered shotgun mic became a mirage.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
update.
the video test that I did is useless. I discovered the cable that I used for this test was broken/soldered strange and went in antiphase.
I will update you soon I'm going to make a new test with a new cable.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
AudioPostExpert said:
2. When using an actual pro field recorder, bracketing is usually required only rarely, for very extreme circumstances. This is because: Pro field recording equipment is capable of cleanly recording a much wider dynamic range, the onboard limiters are much higher quality and more transparent and pro PSMs more skilled in not hitting the limiters hard in the first place! Therefore, even in the example you gave of an actor screaming, bracketing may not be necessary.
Click to expand...

The key information in this passage is "pro PSMs more skilled in not hitting the limiters hard in the first place." They are actuality mixing the audio in real time, so are actively adjusting the fader/knob levels as the scene progresses - and they know the script thoroughly, and the sound team has participated in the blocking and rehearsals, plus years of experience.

Down here in the weeds at the low/no/mini/micro budget level you often have to resort to McGiver type solutions. The "Y" cable to send the signal from the mic to two (2) channels on the same mixer/recorder, one channel set lower than the other as a safety, has been done often. *** There are caveats, however.

There are certain mics that have low output level issues. There are some audio recorders that have weak preamps. Marry those two and there is the serious possibility of excessively low levels all around.

There is the possibility of excessive mic output levels damaging the mixer/recorder.

There may be insufficient or excessive phantom power voltage, which could damage the mic and/or the mixer/recorder.

The mixer/recorder may be unhappy with the "Y" cable thing and start sulking (hum, buzz, funky levels problems).

People using the wrong cables or improperly wiring their own could damage the mic and/or the mixer/recorder. ;) :D

And people are always finding new ones.

This doesn't mean that using a "Y" cable has not worked a majority of the time, but you do need to be aware of the risks.


You may want to troll through a few Zoom specific sites and ask the same question.



*** NEVER use a "Y" cable to split a signal between two different units. There is a very high possibility that you could damage the mic and/or the other units. There is also the possibility of serious grounding problems, a big safety issue in addition to the audio consequences.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Alcove Audio said:
The key information in this passage is "pro PSMs more skilled in not hitting the limiters hard in the first place." They are actuality mixing the audio in real time, so are actively adjusting the fader/knob levels as the scene progresses - and they know the script thoroughly, and the sound team has participated in the blocking and rehearsals, plus years of experience.

Down here in the weeds at the low/no/mini/micro budget level you often have to resort to McGiver type solutions. The "Y" cable to send the signal from the mic to two (2) channels on the same mixer/recorder, one channel set lower than the other as a safety, has been done often. *** There are caveats, however.

There are certain mics that have low output level issues. There are some audio recorders that have weak preamps. Marry those two and there is the serious possibility of excessively low levels all around.

There is the possibility of excessive mic output levels damaging the mixer/recorder.

There may be insufficient or excessive phantom power voltage, which could damage the mic and/or the mixer/recorder.

The mixer/recorder may be unhappy with the "Y" cable thing and start sulking (hum, buzz, funky levels problems).

People using the wrong cables or improperly wiring their own could damage the mic and/or the mixer/recorder. ;) :D

And people are always finding new ones.

This doesn't mean that using a "Y" cable has not worked a majority of the time, but you do need to be aware of the risks.


You may want to troll through a few Zoom specific sites and ask the same question.



*** NEVER use a "Y" cable to split a signal between two different units. There is a very high possibility that you could damage the mic and/or the other units. There is also the possibility of serious grounding problems, a big safety issue in addition to the audio consequences.
Click to expand...


I'm really scared can you give me some advice to avoid some of the risks please?

my tools are:

1) one single zoom H6
2) y cable
3) rode ntg 3

Output impedance NTG3: 25 Ohm
Input impedance Zoom H6: 6 kOhm


use of the devices:

the Rode NTG 3 is connected to line input channel 1 and 2 of the Zoom H6 with the Y cable to record two different volumes. phantom power 48v is active on both channel 1 and channel 2.


if this config is dangerous I will not use the Y cable solution and I will buy another recorder device that implement the safety track natively.


thanks so much for your help.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dan Wake said:
I'm really scared can you give me some advice to avoid some of the risks please?
Click to expand...

In your specific situation, a decent y splitter cable should not be much of a problem. Your NTG3 has a particularly low output impedance and your zoom a high input impedance. In other words, the output from your NTG3 can easily drive both inputs simultaneously on your zoom. On the other hand, by doubling the load on your NTG3 it's effectively operating as if it had 50 ohm output impedance, the same output impedance as an NTG1. This doesn't mean that your NTG3 will necessarily sound or perform like an NTG1 when you split it's output but you are reducing it's quality somewhat, which is a bit of a shame considering the premium you've paid for higher quality by buying an NTG3. Exactly how noticeable this loss of quality actually is could depend on a number of factors, one of which being the relatively poor quality of Zoom mic pre-amps.

If it were me, I wouldn't be scared of doing any physical damage but I would run a test to compare a recording where the NTG3's signal is split with an identical but un-split recording. If there were a noticeable quality difference I'd look at powered/active splitters rather than a simple Y cable.

G
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I know a carpenter who builds safety tracks. I can get you a quote if you like?

Dan Wake said:
I'm tryng to find out a solution to bring the safety track rec for the Zoom H6.
Safety track allow to rec a second file at minus tot. db to prevent audio clipping. This can save the work if actors screams.
If actors scream using a limiter is not good because it compress the sound creating unnatural effect, something similar to a kazoo or a megaphone effect. so a professional recording tool should give you the possibility to have the safety track rec option to take two files with different decibel level recording. This will save the dynamic range of the voice if actors scream. And sometimes they will scream if you work in film industry.
So I decided to make a test with a Y cable and the Zoom H6 to find a diy solution but I failed the experiment. Current firmware is v2.0.
You can find my test here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT2MlOBvDmk
This test show that is impossible to have a working safety track rec for phantom powered mics on the Zoom H6.
Firmware v2.0 does not allow safety track rec for phantom powered mics.
I wrote to Zoom company to ask this feature in the next firmware update, it's the only solution.
The external unit Zoom EXH-6 will not solve this problem because it does not provide any phantom power.

Please guys if possible write to Zoom to ask them to implement the safety track in the zoom H6 channel 1-4 for phantom powered mics.

info@zoom.co.jp


update 04-22-2015.
the video test that I did is useless. I discovered the cable that I used for this test was broken/soldered strange and went in antiphase.
I will update you soon I'm going to make a new test with a new cable.
Click to expand...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top