Sound Equipment Thoughts?

SkyCopeland

SkyCopeland

Rode NTG-2 condenser microphone : 269$
Zoom H6 Portable Studio Recorder: 399$
Sony MDR-7506 Profession Headphone Monitor: 85$

Total of 753$

First question will be the "depends on what you're shooting". So let's get that out of the way. I plan on shooting short narratives for film festivals. I have some that are all indoors and outdoors.

Sooo that's what I've heard to be good budget sound equipment. Minus the H6 for the H4n that is... but I really the body of the H6 and I haven't heard of it downgrading anything....

Also I hear that the NTG-2 is a good upgrade from the Rode Videomic Pro...

Lastly the only headphone I found to be recommend here is the MDR-7506... so yea... nice price and hopefully well suggested.

So thoughts on that budget.... plus what next upgrade for a mic? Say if I had 400$ to spend on the mic instead of the 269$?
 
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SkyCopeland said:
Rode NTG-2 condenser microphone : 269$
Zoom H6 Portable Studio Recorder: 399$
Sony MDR-7506 Profession Headphone Monitor: 85$

Total of 753$

First question will be the "depends on what you're shooting". So let's get that out of the way. I plan on shooting short narratives for film festivals. I have some that are all indoors and outdoors.

Sooo that's what I've heard to be good budget sound equipment. Minus the H6 for the H4n that is... but I really the body of the H6 and I haven't heard of it downgrading anything....

Also I hear that the NTG-2 is a good upgrade from the Rode Videomic Pro...

Lastly the only headphone I found to be recommend here is the MDR-7506... so yea... nice price and hopefully well suggested.

So thoughts on that budget.... plus what next upgrade for a mic? Say if I had 400$ to spend on the mic instead of the 269$?
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These are well founded plans. Maybe consider a tascam dr 60 or 100mkii in place of the h6. You will need a mic mount - like an INV7, wind protection for outdoors, boom pole and XLR cable.

You will have second tier, solid equipment that is not bottom of the barrel (a good, and rare for indies, place to be)

You might want to consider a hypercardioid in addition if you are doing a lot of indoors

Better shotgun tier? NTG-3, then Schoeps CMIT 5U/2U

If you wanted to go more baseline on the phones, you could always opt for the Monoprice 8323 that have nice isolation (not the most linear freqs, but pretty decent)
 
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Do you have all of the needed accessories like a boom-pole, cables, shock-mount, etc.? Keep in mind that those items will also cost you.

You may want to consider the NTG-1 instead of the NTG-2; the NTG-1 has a hotter output level, but the phantom power must be externally supplied. The same applies to the Audio Technica AT897 vs. the AT875; the AT875 has hotter output levels but the phantom power must be externally supplied.

You may want to consider the Tascam DR-100mkII or DR-40 or DR-60d instead of a Zoom product. One benefit of the Tascam units is that Tascam makes battery packs for them. If you use the NTG-1 or AT897 you will drain the batteries of the audio recorder very quickly supplying phantom power to the mic.



Here's my $1,200 buying guide. Select one from each category:


Shotgun mic kits will have the shotgun mic, boom-pole, shock-mount and simple wind protection (softie).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...chnica_AT897BK_AT_897_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461493-REG/Rode_NTG_1_Shotgun_Condenser.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/747422-REG/Rode_NTG_2_Shotgun_Microphone_HDSLR.html


Hypercardioid mic:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867157-REG/Avantone_Pro_CK1_CK_1_Small_Capsule_FET_Pencil.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359043-REG/sE_Electronics_SE1A_SE1A_Small_Diaphragm.html



Audio recorders:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832911-REG/Tascam_DR100MKII_DR_100mkII_Portable_Linear.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821259-REG/Tascam_DR_40_DR_40_4_Track_Handheld_Digital.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821260-REG/Roland_R_26_R_26_6_Channel_Digital_Field.html



Headphones:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/507447-REG/Sennheiser_HD_25_1_II_HD_25_1_II.html



You'll also need cables, cases, battery packs and other miscellaneous items - about $200+.




But who is going to run the sound for you? They will know less about sound than you do; and you don't know much. (Don't be insulted, I wouldn't know an F-stop from a bus stop; and I'm married a photographer.) That's always the issue - knowledge, skill and experience. Even if you learn a lot about sound when you are on the set you won't be handling the sound responsibilities, someone else will, because you can't direct, DP and do production sound all at the same time.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
You may want to consider the NTG-1 instead of the NTG-2; the NTG-1 has a hotter output level, but the phantom power must be externally supplied. The same applies to the Audio Technica AT897 vs. the AT875; the AT875 has hotter output levels but the phantom power must be externally supplied.

You may want to consider the Tascam DR-100mkII or DR-40 or DR-60d instead of a Zoom product. One benefit of the Tascam units is that Tascam makes battery packs for them. If you use the NTG-1 or AT897 you will drain the batteries of the audio recorder very quickly supplying phantom power to the mic.
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As you clearly understand my little knowledge of sound equipment haha... would you mind explaining phantom power... I see it a lot and can never really find a good explanation of it... is it just a different form of powering electronics?

Also I hope I don't sound stupid asking what you mean by "hotter" output level?
 
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What Alcove wrote is on point; you've got a good thing going with a phantom powered Ntg-2 though

Phantom is externally powered (as opposed to an internal battery); hotter is louder output, which comes into play with the noise floor rise when you turn up gain on the preamp
 
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It gets a bit involved, but there are various types of microphones. Here is the kindergarten explanation... The two most common are dynamic mics and condenser mics. Dynamic mics use an induction coil and a magnet attached to the diaphragm. Dynamic mics have a very short pick-up range (six inches or less) and are most commonly used in high volume situations such as on stage with rock bands. A condenser mic uses a steady electric current supplied by an external source - phantom power - instead of a magnet. Condenser mics are (usually) quite sensitive (compared to dynamic mics) and have much longer "reach."

The NTG-2 and AT897 both have phantom power circuitry built into the mic capsule with a battery to supply the electricity. For some reason this type of mic (using phantom power circuitry built into the mic capsule with a battery to supply the electricity) have very noticeably lower output levels than other mics.


You may want to pick up "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers - it will give you a basic understanding of technique and technology.

The-Location-Sound-Bible_large.jpg
 
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Are you going to have a separate operator for the sound gear? If so, I'd suggest going for a Tascam DR-680 over the H6. It'll cost you an extra $40. While the preamps and build quality don't compare to the Sound devices, if you treat it well, I think you'll be relatively happy with performance of the unit for the price.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673541-REG/Tascam_DR_680_DR_680_8_Track_Portable_Field.html

Someone did a youtube video with a comparison of how some units sound. The 680 is on that list so you can decide with a little more information based on what you think you want for your productions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKVeBqhXMvM#t=475

As for the Microphone, the difference between the NTG-1 and NTG-2 is the 2 has the option to be battery powered. If you're using a recorder to power the microphone, you're usually better off just getting the NTG-1 (slightly better output from what the audio guys tell me).

I use the NTG-3 and cannot recommend it highly enough though I suspect it's out of your price range. You could also look at the Sennheiser MKH-416 but it's even more expensive.

The quality of your recordings is typically dependent on your weakest piece of equipment.

Good luck.
 
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The differences between the DR-100mkII and the DR-60d will not be heard by the average user.

Which audio recorder to purchase will depend upon who is acting as PSM (Production Sound Mixer). The PSM is the person who sets and adjusts the levels on the audio recorder while monitoring the audio. At the low/no/mini/micro budget level that is usually the boom-op. If the boom-op is also acting as PSM the audio recorder/mixer should be "bag-able," meaning the boom-op can look at the levels while holding the boom.

boompole_4091.jpg
 
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Take what I say with a grain of salt. Alcove has about a billion times more experience than me.

The DR-60d is a unit that took 3 steps forward, 3 steps back DR-100mkII. They made a leap forward with the quality of the pre-amps and added a function of being able to record two tracks from the same source at different levels. The steps back is the unit is build quality is gone way down. I had one for a day and returned it and picked up a better model. There are other quirks with the unit (pots, how the unit records 3+ tracks), but it's a great unit for the price. On top of that, it's also an awkward shape.
 
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Sweetie said:
Take what I say with a grain of salt. Alcove has about a billion times more experience than me.

The DR-60d is a unit that took 3 steps forward, 3 steps back DR-100mkII. They made a leap forward with the quality of the pre-amps and added a function of being able to record two tracks from the same source at different levels. The steps back is the unit is build quality is gone way down. I had one for a day and returned it and picked up a better model. There are other quirks with the unit (pots, how the unit records 3+ tracks), but it's a great unit for the price. On top of that, it's also an awkward shape.
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I don't mind too much about build quality as I'm always extremely careful with my equipment... and whoever of my crew uses my sound equipment I hope will respect me enough to show the same to my stuff. Price I'm not too worried about really... (considering the NTG-3, if it's worth the jump in price from the 1/2) and I kind of like the shape compared to the little handheld ones...
 
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SkyCopeland said:
I don't mind too much about build quality as I'm always extremely careful with my equipment...
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That doesn't matter. You are working in the field where Murphy's Law is in full force.

SkyCopeland said:
and whoever of my crew uses my sound equipment I hope will respect me enough to show the same to my stuff.
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Trust me; they won't. Always remember O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law - Murphy was an optimist.

SkyCopeland said:
Price I'm not too worried about really... (considering the NTG-3, if it's worth the jump in price from the 1/2) and I kind of like the shape compared to the little handheld ones...
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If price is no object then get professional gear - Schoeps CMIT5U shotgun mic ($2,200), Sound Devices 302 Mixer ($2,200), Sound Devices 722 Recorder ($2,600), etc. A professional sound cart goes for around $50,000.

NagraPlat_Base.jpg



Seriously, get the Tascam DR-100mkII, Roland R-26, Fostex FR-2 LE, Tascam HD-P2 or Edirol/Roland R-44.
 
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considering the NTG-3, if it's worth the jump in price from the 1/2
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In my opinion, yes. While it's still a relatively cheap microphone, it's not going to compare well with the microphones costing 3 times its price, it's a microphone that (in my opinion) performs above its weight bracket (price). That being said, so does the NTG1/2, just at a lower level.

O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law - Murphy was an optimist.
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Ain't that the truth.

On sets, especially at the no-budget level, you're dealing with people who just don't know any better. On top of that, even with the most careful person, accidents can still happen.

Even with that in mind, I'd still go with the DR-60D/NTG-3 combination. Just be aware of the problems the DR-60D bring.

One thing that hasn't been brought up here. The quality of your recordings is going to have more to do with the people using the equipment than the gear itself. Experts with ordinary gear are going to capture better sound than idiots with professional level gear. There's no real point in getting the better gear if the people using it (and those picking the locations) are clueless. [I had a production where the producer swore to me that the locations would be great for sound. The best of the bunch ended up being a busy Petrol station. The others included a busy main road, a house no less than 50 yards from a highway on-ramp and a cafe no less than 30 yards from a freeway, in which no fridges/equipment could be turned off. It didn't matter what equipment I was using, it was always going to be a struggle]
 
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