Shotlist - Director or DOP?

ajedproduction

ajedproduction

Everyone has their own way of doing things. As a director do you do your own shotlist or do you leave that to the DOP?

Some DOPs want to be in charge of the shotlist, but the way I work I do the shotlist and then hand that to the DOP. I'm the kinda director who relies so much on visual storytelling and use cinematography to help tell my story. Left the shotlist to the DOP once and didn't like it, I was changing a lot on set.

I definitely try and bring the DOP in with the creative process and listen to their ideas, but I'm not about to hand over the keys to the film and let the DOP do the shotlist.

But that's just my way of working, maybe it's not healthy..

How about you guys? How do you work?
 
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I do it the same way you do. My DoP really likes that way of working. He was directing his own work before we met, and didn't really like doing it. He's got a far better eye for composition than I do, but I feel (as does he) that I have a better grasp of visual storytelling. Not that he's not good with story, and he does bring his own ideas, but I know what I want and what's best for the story, and he knows how to get it. I often just need to tell him what the shot needs to do, and he will know what is needed. I trust him enough to say "I need you to go out and get [x] shot of a tree" and do it the way I want without further direction. But usually I am making the calls on the direction of the cinematography.

Perhaps stifling for the average DoP, but cinematography is such a big part of the way I tell story, I couldn't relinquish complete control.
 
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I personally prefer to do my own, though I really do like to get input before shooting.

I'm also all for the DOP doing their own shot list, though I want enough time to look over the list and discuss/alter it/visit locations and adjust etc.
 
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As a DP, here's how I like to work.

I don't want to do the shot list myself. To me that takes away the collaborative nature of the Director/DoP working relationship.

I really like to meet with the Director and spend a lot of time shot listing together. That way, we can talk about our ideas, discuss what will and won't work and decide on what's going to work best for the story of the film. That way I can also talk to him/her abot ideas for lighting, mood etc on a scene by scene basis as well and work out anything else we might need.

I find this the best way of working, as it means you're both on the same page when it comes to the shoot day, and you both know what direction you're going in, so if there's something that isn't quite going to work on the day you can find a solution to it that satisfies both parties quite quickly.

I also find that when I have a Director simply hand me a shot list, there can be shots that simply aren't achievable with the time, equipment and budget we have - or in the location we have.
I like to nut this out in pre-pro so I can suggest a solution that will work and organise to make it happen (or find the necessary equipment to make the original plan happen), rather than turn up on the day and have to re-think everything.

I once had a Director hand me a shot list on the day and then proceeded to get quite upset when I demonstrated that a majority of te shots were just not possible the way he wanted, given the budget and time restraints (given that it was now the day of the shoot).
He didn't believe me and so attempted to operate the shots himself. He did no better, but he decided that I couldn't get him the shots that he wanted, so made sure he operated at least one take of every shot we did.

Needless to say 90% of the cut was my operating, and the 10% that wasn't were shots that he simply didn't allow me to operate a take of. He told me he wasn't happy with the operation in those shots (and it is jarring in the edit), but had no other options.
 
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ajedproduction said:
I'm the kinda director who relies so much on visual storytelling and use cinematography to help tell my story.
Click to expand...

Using cinematography to aid your storytelling is vital if one wants to make a decent or good film. However, relying on cinematography for your storytelling is going to massively reduce the appeal of your films and put them in the realm of arthouse or experimental rather than the possibility of them being more mainstream.

The meaning of a particular piece of cinematography, as far as the story is concerned, is defined by it's relationship to the other filmmaking elements; the sound/music and the shots/scenes which precede and follow it. In other words, a film is "made" in post-production and the actual filming is no more than the creation of some of the raw ingredients which will eventually become the film. A shot list is therefore essentially a shopping list of the raw ingredients required in post to make the film and the only person who knows (or should know) what the finished film is going to be and therefore exactly what raw materials are required is the Director. The DOP is there to help get these raw materials the Director will require in post and therefore the shot list needs the input of both. Taking this same philosophy a step further, the great modern filmmakers tend to also include the Sound Designer in the shot list creation process.

G
 
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I love the creative collaboration with the DP. I love working together
on the shot list and getting ideas that didn't occur to me. When there
is a creative difference I usually over shoot - shooting what the DP
likes and what I like. Getting more coverage has never hurt my vision
when I'm sitting in the editing room.

As jax says, there are situations where that is impossible. I never act
like a dictator; I am a very collaborative director. I know my "vision"
isn't the ONLY way or the best way. On a percentage scale the DP's
choices have been better for the movie more then 50% of the time.

I know that wouldn't happen if I didn't consistently use very creative
people. But I do understand that many directors just don't have access
to creative, dedicated DP's so they must go their own way.
 
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I will add - at the end of the day, I still work for the Director, so as long as he/she's happy, then I'm happy.

If there's a difference of opinion on something, I'll make my case - but if the Director doesn't want to do it that way, that's totally their call. I often find that if time permits, we shoot both options, but in the end as long as I've made my case and the Director is happy with his/her decision, then I'm happy.
 
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If you're paying someone to DP, they should definitely have input on the shot list (it's part of why you're paying them, isn't it?); the director should conceive the rough shot list and then work collaboratively with the DP to improve it/make everything accomplishable.
 
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WhiteOpus said:
If you're paying someone to DP, they should definitely have input on the shot list (it's part of why you're paying them, isn't it?); the director should conceive the rough shot list and then work collaboratively with the DP to improve it/make everything accomplishable.
Click to expand...

I'd agree. If I have the luxury of a good 1st AD (only had this once) I may have them do a "basic coverage" shot list for all the scenes, then I'll come behind and tweak that. Then me, 1st, and DP all confer to create the final list.
 
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I would say if you're not paying a somewhat accomplished or up and coming DP, surely you would be more likely to have their input! If you're not paying, what else do they get out of it other than a chance to be creative?

Also, I like to shot list with my Director and then hand it over to the AD to schedule.
 
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