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Revising

MikeBarcode

MikeBarcode

After completing a first draft, I plan on reading the entire script, and making changes I want to make, etc. etc. After that, I was thinking about letting others read it to get feedback, ideas, changes, and the like. I have these questions:

Is this too soon to bring others in?
How many readers is too many readers? I don't want too many people reading this, but I also would like to get feedback.
Also, what type of people should I have read? I'm guessing not people too close, but I don't want strangers reading....I don't know. I'm fuzzy on the revision process. Tips, tricks anyone?

MIKE
 
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The answer to your question depends on what kind of feedback you need. It also depends on what kind of project it is.

If it's short showing it to a couple of willing filmmakers, who you trust, is a good idea. Ask them to make notes in the margin as they read, things like "I don't understand this bit," "Why does she say this?", "I've lost interest now", these are all good notes because they tell you how people are reacting to each section of the script. If you only ask them what they think about it, chances are you'll get a reply like "It's OK" (This means they hate it). It's also useless froma script development point of view.

If it's a feature I'd recomend that instead of giving it to freinds that you form a professional relationship with script editor. A script editor reads the script and then writes a comprehensive script report usually running to about twenty pages. In my experience this is the only way to get high quality feedback on a script. It's also a part of the development process that far too many indies miss out and the bottom line with features is that it's easier and cheaper to fix the script than it is to fix the film.
 
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People you trust...

MikeBarcode said:
After completing a first draft, I plan on reading the entire script, and making changes I want to make, etc. etc. After that, I was thinking about letting others read it to get feedback, ideas, changes, and the like. I have these questions:

Is this too soon to bring others in?
How many readers is too many readers? I don't want too many people reading this, but I also would like to get feedback.
Also, what type of people should I have read? I'm guessing not people too close, but I don't want strangers reading....I don't know. I'm fuzzy on the revision process. Tips, tricks anyone?

MIKE
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Definitely let people you trust read what you have... Unfortunately, unless they know anything about screenwriting or storytelling, the feedback you get might not be that helpful...

I have several other SCREENwriters on the hook to read my stuff... There's 5 of us all together and we read each other's stuff... We then make notes on what we've read and go back to work...

If you can't accomplish this because of not knowing enough screenwriters, I would suggest, AT A COMPLETE MINIMUM, that you get some standard industry coverage for your script assuming it's a feature.

Shorts are a totally different animal so you need to find people that know short films and short film screenplays...

Industry coverage will at least tell you if your script is in the ballpark... With an indie film depending on so many variables for success, I always recommend getting coverage... In fact, I would recommend getting coverage AND a professional analysis of your script...

You can't afford NOT TO if you're hoping for a successful indie film. For the extra $500 it'll cost you to have some professional analysis done, you'll save a whole hell of a lot doing this BEFORE going into production because let's face it...

Most low budget indie films simply cannot compete with the big boys...

To compete, you must have completed a much better screenplay than the usual stuff we see at the theaters...

Now before you start saying that everything at the theater is crap...

I wholeheartedly agree with you but you should view this crap as the ABSOLUTE BASELINE for your screenplay and then raise the bar about a thousand percent.

filmy

EDIT: And most low budget indie film screenplay NEVER even get close to the baseline...
 
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Yo, clive. How much does a decent script editor usually charge?
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In the UK you can get professional script report for free, through the Arts Council, but when dealing with one privately I normally pay about $300 a day for their time. For a feature I'd probaly end up paying $600, one day to pull together the script report and one more to discuss the issues with me 1-2-1.

where can I locate a good script editor?
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I got mine through the UK Arts Council, I guess you could ask the guys for recomendations.

I think Script Pimp offers script reports, but I've no idea what quailty of serice they provide, I think they also list script editors. There is always Mandy, but again you'd want to be sure that you were dealing with someone who knew what they were talking about, not just some guy who set up as a script consultant after failing as an estate agent. :lol:
 
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I have suggested this place in another thread but www.Zoetrope.com is a great place to get your script read and commented on by people who know thier stuff! There is a catch - for everything tyou sumbit you have to read a certain number of screenplays but you get greta feedback adn it's WELL WORTH the effort!

Coppola also used to use it to hunt for projects also.
 
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In my opinion the best thing is to have a key hire already on board (a lead actor, a director or producer, even the composer, etc.) whose creative judgement you respect - let them give most of the creative feedback as they will put the most effort into it. Most people won't give adequate feedback even if they want to be helpful. My skepticism of "coverage" services is that "nobody knows anything" -- most coverage reviewers have never had their own work produced. Also many coverage services seem suited for screenplays with "cook book" genre style writing. (But definitely not American Zoetrope, they are great!)
 
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My skepticism of "coverage" services is that "nobody knows anything" -- most coverage reviewers have never had their own work produced.
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There is a difference between a professional script editor and a coverage service. It goes without saying that any script editor you hire should have professional credentials, and should have script editor credits on produced features. I'm lucky mine has also written half a dozen produced feature films as well. It makes sense to check their CV against IMDB Pro as well.

In my opinion the best thing is to have a key hire already on board (a lead actor, a director or producer, even the composer, etc.) whose creative judgement you respect - let them give most of the creative feedback as they will put the most effort into it
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I would never ever do this, again (Two very long boring stories of doom one about a feature that got made and another that got a name attached before the script was properly ready). If the screenplay isn't ready to be shown because it has structural flaws you could loose the opportunity to get the actor/director/producer you want because the screenplay is flawed. The whole point of a script editor is that they are impartial, and can give you honest unbiased feedback on the strenghts and weaknesses of your screenplay. The other thing is that I've been down this road, my ex-business partner script editied No Place and to be honest the film is weaker because of that. The truth is that he didn't have the skills or knowledge to script edit professionally and the film suffered for that.

There is a lot of talk about why most indie films don't make the big time and get huge audiences and I think Filmy is right, in the vast majority of cases it's because the scripts just aren't tight/good enough. One of the primary reasons for this is because people don't take the role of the script editor seriously.
 
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clive said:
I would never ever do this, again (Two very long boring stories of doom one about a feature that got made and another that got a name attached before the script was properly ready). If the screenplay isn't ready to be shown because it has structural flaws you could loose the opportunity to get the actor/director/producer you want because the screenplay is flawed. The whole point of a script editor is that they are impartial, and can give you honest unbiased feedback on the strengths and weaknesses of your screenplay.
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I guess I'm just going on my last experience - but I didn't hire a script editor. The most useful feedback was from my producer and lead actor. But I could definitely see that not working (or a situation of putting the cart before the horse). If I could have hired William Golding or Charlie Kaufman to look at it, I certainly would have! :cool:
 
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Don't get me wrong both the producer and the lead actors should be part of the on going script development process.

I think a good script keeps on changing right up until the online edit and throughout that process lots of people will have creative input. However to get from from first draft to acceptable reading script usually involves a couple of rewrites to iron out any problems that make the script less than totally exciting. My experience is that a good script editor helps that process.

I know for me that every time I finish a script I think, yes, this is the one, I've really cracked it this time. By a week later I'm just starting to see places that the film can be tightened, however the one thing I can't ever do is read the script fresh from the page without knowing what's going to happen next.

I know it may seem odd by I prefer to deal with someone on a purely professional basis rather than mates. The problem with script editing done by mates is that they're mates. Most of my mates are screenwriters, filmmakers, musicians and artists and either they want to be encouraging or these days they're too busy doing their own things to give proper notes on a screenplay. A good set of notes takes the best part of a day's work. This is the reason I don't get too upset when I send scripts out to mates and two months later they still haven't had time to read them.

The other thing is that I'm really not great about reciprocating, I'm actually a really good script editor myself (I'm particularly good on helping other writers with character development and editing dialogue) but I don't like to read other people's scripts especially when I'm writing. Truth is that it doesn't matter how honourable I am about other people's ideas; I know how easy it is to forget that you read something in a script and then imagined that it was your original idea, plus very early in my career I had an incident where I was stalked by another screenwriter and her brother because they thought I'd stolen their idea (That was a really freaky conicidence and made me catious about anyone I work with reading other people's ideas) This was of course a rediculous idea, not because I'm particularly honourable, no, I'm just to arrogant about my writing to use someone else's idea.:lol:
 
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cook book genre style writing...

filmscheduling said:
In my opinion the best thing is to have a key hire already on board (a lead actor, a director or producer, even the composer, etc.) whose creative judgement you respect - let them give most of the creative feedback as they will put the most effort into it. Most people won't give adequate feedback even if they want to be helpful. My skepticism of "coverage" services is that "nobody knows anything" -- most coverage reviewers have never had their own work produced. Also many coverage services seem suited for screenplays with "cook book" genre style writing. (But definitely not American Zoetrope, they are great!)
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You're right... If you go off and write some arthouse film, you're not going to want regular script coverage... But then again, you're taking a HUGE chance making a film like that and chances are that it probably won't work anyway... Sad but true...

But conventional storytelling is NOT cook book style... Form NOT formula. As human beings, we're hardwired to recognize well told stories... Knowing how to accomplish that is not writing a screenplay according to a formula or recipe...

Everything is different... Story, characters, events, arcs, etc... Unless of course you copy someone else's story.

So, if you're writing a conventional story i.e., something you hope to have compete at the better film festivals or better yet, distributors, you better know how to tell a story...

I don't care how well your story is shot, how well it looks, how well it's acted, edited, etc... If you failed to tell a story well...

NO SALE.

filmy
 
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FilmJumper said:
You're right... If you go off and write some arthouse film, you're not going to want regular script coverage... But then again, you're taking a HUGE chance making a film like that and chances are that it probably won't work anyway... Sad but true...

filmy
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My beef with script coverage is that they seem to filter for high concept, well written 3 act "by the numbers" scripts like "sleepless in seattle".

But I never saw the point of being involved in film without the aim of accomplishing something new. I wonder what today's studio script coverage would have looked like for.. Godard's Breathless? Repo Man? 2001?

Sure story is important - but those three films have such meandering bizarre stories that they probably never would have be made today - since "plot point two" does not occur on page 30.

Oh well at least "fight club" was made!
 
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