Questions regarding post

T

TheMurph

I started doing some test footage just to get a feel for the camera and to also get practice on the post aspect. I ran in to problems. :lol:

My first problem and question is, does anyone know an efficient way to use Vegas Pro 9 and AE? To the best of my knowledge, if I want to edit my project before fixing the color and effects, I have to finish and render the file in Vegas, open it up in AE and render it yet again. Am I'm making it harder than what it is?

Secondly, when all the rendering is done in Vegas and AE (with just minor color corrections) I was left with two minute clip at roughly 3gigs. How would I ever get a short 10 minute, or even a feature 80 minute + film onto a dvd if the standard size is 4.7gigs? A friend suggested something called dvdshrink, which I haven't had a chance to look at, but to me I would think that compressing a 130 gig (more or less) for a feature down to 4.7gigs would make it look horrible. I know I'm probably missing something obvious, but I googled and couldn't find an answer anywhere.

Thanks for all the help,

You all are lifesavers!
 
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Well, as far as I know there really is no other way to get footage from Vegas to AE and back. You have to rerender every time. That's why the Adobe Production Bundle is so great - you can just drag and drop project files from Premiere right into AE without rendering. You might want to look into getting the education version of the Production Bundle at some later time.

Your next question has to do with video formats and so called Codecs. As you might have already noticed, there are different formats like AVI, MPEG or MP4, ect. Those are called containers. Inside these containers, there's the actual video stream which can be encoded using various Codecs. Some that you might've heard of are DivX, h.264 or MPEG2.

Now, the Videos on a DVD are compressed/encoded using MPEG2. This Codec is fairy efficient in getting files down to a small size while still keeping a good quality.
The files you render out of AE are usually uncompressed, meaning no Codec is used to get the filesize down. That's why they are so huge. I would suggest you use a lossless Codec to render out of AE. I usually like to render things out as Quicktime .mov with the Animation Codec. Other nice lossless codecs are Lagarith and Huffyuf (just google those).
Using a lossless Codec means that files are compressed, but unlike lossy Codecs like MPEG2 (used for DVD), DivX or h.264, no information is thrown away and the quality stays the same. So how can this be? Smaller filesize and yet the same quality. Well, think about it kinda like a .zip file. It compresses stuff, but the files inside still stay the same.

So your workflow would be something like this: Cut your film in Vegas, export to Quicktime-Aniation OR avi-Lagarith OR avi-Huffyuf.
Import this file into AE and do your Color Correction / VFX. Export again using one of these lossless Codecs
Import in Vegas and do the finishing + Export as MPEG2 for DVD. I don't know if Vegas has a built in DVD Authoring tool. If it does, this should automatically convert your movie into MPEG2 to fit in on the DVD-Disk.
 
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workflow, workflow, workflow

Hey Murph welcome to work flow and encoding hell!

In a general sense what your doing in your first problem, your work flow, is about right. Im not sure if your first using neoscene to get a more manageable files off of your camera. Seems a generic workflow looks like this:
  • Capture (copy) video from camera to HardDisk
  • Import files into movie editor (NLE)
  • render movie in highest quality possible
  • Open rendered movie in AE
  • ad your VFX and color correction in AE
  • Render movie in highest quality possible
  • Edit for sound in your sound editing software (or back in your NLE as a new project with just the one movie file) (Im still squishy on this bit...Iv yet to do it my self)
  • Render big movie with finished sound at bet quality posible

Now you have a master movie and its HUGE and pretty much useless.. haha My highest quality renders tend to be unwatchable on my PC !!

Its time to figure out what formats you want to deliver your movie in.
Me, I like to do a vimeo ready .h264 mp4, as well as a DVD.
I use quicktime pro ($25) to open my high quality movie and export it for web viewing.. (if you do this be sure to look up on videocopilot.net the AE gamma fix \ trick)
For the DVD I let the DVD authoring software encode my big movie for DVD as it sees fit.


So, key to all this working is picking the right render formats early on. As Im using premiere, AE, Encore and quicktime, so long as my renders are quicktime compatible, it all works for me.

I dont use vegas I use premiere which offers one major advantage to my work flow. I do not have to render the movie in premiere then open the movie file in AE, rather, AE can import premiere files directly, importing all the original clips at the best quality etc..
 
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Thom 98 said:
Now, the Videos on a DVD are compressed/encoded using MPEG2. This Codec is fairy efficient in getting files down to a small size while still keeping a good quality.
The files you render out of AE are usually uncompressed, meaning no Codec is used to get the filesize down. That's why they are so huge. I would suggest you use a lossless Codec to render out of AE. I usually like to render things out as Quicktime .mov with the Animation Codec. Other nice lossless codecs are Lagarith and Huffyuf (just google those).
Using a lossless Codec means that files are compressed, but unlike lossy Codecs like MPEG2 (used for DVD), DivX or h.264, no information is thrown away and the quality stays the same. So how can this be? Smaller filesize and yet the same quality. Well, think about it kinda like a .zip file. It compresses stuff, but the files inside still stay the same.

So your workflow would be something like this: Cut your film in Vegas, export to Quicktime-Aniation OR avi-Lagarith OR avi-Huffyuf.
Import this file into AE and do your Color Correction / VFX. Export again using one of these lossless Codecs
Import in Vegas and do the finishing + Export as MPEG2 for DVD. I don't know if Vegas has a built in DVD Authoring tool. If it does, this should automatically convert your movie into MPEG2 to fit in on the DVD-Disk.
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks for the reply, informative yet disheartening at the same time. :lol: I can get a discount on Premiere or AE (already got the AE) from my school, but for some reason they don't offer the full bundle. If I bought the Premiere would it make is simpler than that, or do I need the bundle for them to work together so well? Though I could buy the student version of the bundle from Adobe's website, it's more money than what I can invest right now. :)

--I tried exporting in Vegas as a Quicktime file but it became very jumpy about halfway through upon playback, yet when I exported as an avi there was no jumpiness at all.

Thanks for the help, this will give men and idea of what direction to go.

wheatgrinder said:
Hey Murph welcome to work flow and encoding hell!

In a general sense what your doing in your first problem, your work flow, is about right. Im not sure if your first using neoscene to get a more manageable files off of your camera. Seems a generic workflow looks like this:
  • Capture (copy) video from camera to HardDisk
  • Import files into movie editor (NLE)
  • render movie in highest quality possible
  • Open rendered movie in AE
  • ad your VFX and color correction in AE
  • Render movie in highest quality possible
  • Edit for sound in your sound editing software (or back in your NLE as a new project with just the one movie file) (Im still squishy on this bit...Iv yet to do it my self)
  • Render big movie with finished sound at bet quality posible

Now you have a master movie and its HUGE and pretty much useless.. haha My highest quality renders tend to be unwatchable on my PC !!

Its time to figure out what formats you want to deliver your movie in.
Me, I like to do a vimeo ready .h264 mp4, as well as a DVD.
I use quicktime pro ($25) to open my high quality movie and export it for web viewing.. (if you do this be sure to look up on videocopilot.net the AE gamma fix \ trick)
For the DVD I let the DVD authoring software encode my big movie for DVD as it sees fit.


So, key to all this working is picking the right render formats early on. As Im using premiere, AE, Encore and quicktime, so long as my renders are quicktime compatible, it all works for me.

I dont use vegas I use premiere which offers one major advantage to my work flow. I do not have to render the movie in premiere then open the movie file in AE, rather, AE can import premiere files directly, importing all the original clips at the best quality etc..
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks once again wheat! I was fairly happy with the results I got with the camera work and practicing on some of the DOF techniques you posted, edited it together, and then hit the wall of what to do after that! :lol: Rendering out of Vegas, opening in AE, rendering back out of AE, opening back in Vegas, seems to be the only option I have right now. :)
 
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Yeah, this is why we should finish editing and LOCK THE FILM before adding VFX and color correction. For qualities sake, we don't want render any more times than necessary.

I think dedicated sound software (cubase, logic, etc) will let you edit the sound without having to re encode the video.. (can anyone clarify?)
 
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