There is a fight scene in my upcoming short. I'm deeply unsatisfied with the punching sounds that I currently have at my disposal. Any suggestions? I thought I about trying to record my own, perhaps hitting a big raw hunk of meat or something. I want them to have a deep and kind of bassy thud to them, not just an average "pchhh" noise.
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Punching Sounds
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I've heard whacking/punching/hitting water melon does the trick, however I have no personal experience
Heads of lettuce/cabbage hit on a table. Handful of pasta twisted. Hitting a large pillow with a fairly rigid covering.
Build the parts you need on top of one another. It sounds like you're already analyzing the sound and looking for what you need in the sound. Add something to cover each of those missing parts as you identify them.
Blend them over the top of one another to make a single sound that covers the frequencies you're adding to develop the overall sound in a multi-track sound editor.
Build the parts you need on top of one another. It sounds like you're already analyzing the sound and looking for what you need in the sound. Add something to cover each of those missing parts as you identify them.
Blend them over the top of one another to make a single sound that covers the frequencies you're adding to develop the overall sound in a multi-track sound editor.
There's no direct answer to your question because there are too many variables. First of all you don't want any two punch sounds to be identical. No two sounds are identical in real life and the brain is very sensitive to that sort of thing. It immediately knows either that something is wrong or even worse, that it's the same sound FX duplicated.
The variables which define what your punch sound FX should sound like and how you should design them are: 1. What reaction you want from the audience and 2. What is being punched.
1. You might want to be more "graphical" with your sound FX design than would be the case in real life to add drama, disgust/gore, etc. For example adding a subtle "whoosh" to the punches swing, some additional low frequency or even layering it with a pitched down version of the punch to add greater impact. You have to be very careful with any of these additions though, as a the tiniest bit too much and the audience will notice the sound FX is unreal/wrong. Of course, you might want the audience to realise the sound FX are wrong or unreal for certain genres, say; comedy, cheap Chinese martial arts movies or cartoons for example.
2. If someone is being punched in the nose and you want to make it real and graphical, you might layer the punch sound FX with a subtle "crunching" sound FX or maybe more of a dull thud if the victim is being punched in the stomach. Maybe more of a "splat" element to the sound FX, a "crack" (if a bone is broken), "slap" or even "rip". You might need to take into account if the person throwing the punches is wearing gloves or a knuckle duster. All these decisions/variables will determine how and what you need to record (or source and layer).
One last consideration is how your audience is going to be listening to you film. For example if you expect your audience to listen on a laptop, that will indicate what additional low frequencies to add and how much. If your audience is in a cinema (say during a film festival), those same boosted low frequencies which sounded great on a laptop will make your punch FX sound ridiculous.
G
The variables which define what your punch sound FX should sound like and how you should design them are: 1. What reaction you want from the audience and 2. What is being punched.
1. You might want to be more "graphical" with your sound FX design than would be the case in real life to add drama, disgust/gore, etc. For example adding a subtle "whoosh" to the punches swing, some additional low frequency or even layering it with a pitched down version of the punch to add greater impact. You have to be very careful with any of these additions though, as a the tiniest bit too much and the audience will notice the sound FX is unreal/wrong. Of course, you might want the audience to realise the sound FX are wrong or unreal for certain genres, say; comedy, cheap Chinese martial arts movies or cartoons for example.
2. If someone is being punched in the nose and you want to make it real and graphical, you might layer the punch sound FX with a subtle "crunching" sound FX or maybe more of a dull thud if the victim is being punched in the stomach. Maybe more of a "splat" element to the sound FX, a "crack" (if a bone is broken), "slap" or even "rip". You might need to take into account if the person throwing the punches is wearing gloves or a knuckle duster. All these decisions/variables will determine how and what you need to record (or source and layer).
One last consideration is how your audience is going to be listening to you film. For example if you expect your audience to listen on a laptop, that will indicate what additional low frequencies to add and how much. If your audience is in a cinema (say during a film festival), those same boosted low frequencies which sounded great on a laptop will make your punch FX sound ridiculous.
G
What he said...
Everything hangs on context.
Do you want "reality", action/adventure, Bruce Lee or Loony Tunes? Each one has a distinct character.
What body part is being hit?
How much does it hurt?
How much "damage" is being done?
How far into the scene/film are you?
How many punches are being thrown?
These are all reasons you are unhappy with the sounds you are using; they are not emotionally satisfying, because they have no been made/selected specifically for your film.
There are a number of decent "Foley" libraries out there (although technically once you start cutting them in rather than performing them they become sound effects).
http://www.sound-ideas.com/sfxmenu-foley.html
Or you can buy by-the-sound from SoundDogs.
http://www.sounddogs.com/
If you decide to make the sounds yourself you need a fair amount of technique, both technically (mic selection/placement, etc.) and as a Foley performer (props usage). The proper gear needs to be used as well, mostly having to do with S/N ratio; cheap gear is noisy.
Thanks guys, I appreciate all of the answers. It has given me some food for thought.
The film takes place during the end of prohibition, and the fight scene is pretty gritty. I basically want the punching sound to sound hard and brutal, and slightly exaggerated in the sense that the punches sound ridiculously hard. I don't know if this is a very thorough explanation, but the Dark Knight series comes to mind when thinking of punch sounds that I want to get.
I suppose I will just start trying to invent some sounds with different layers and things and see how it goes!
The film takes place during the end of prohibition, and the fight scene is pretty gritty. I basically want the punching sound to sound hard and brutal, and slightly exaggerated in the sense that the punches sound ridiculously hard. I don't know if this is a very thorough explanation, but the Dark Knight series comes to mind when thinking of punch sounds that I want to get.
I suppose I will just start trying to invent some sounds with different layers and things and see how it goes!
When you are making sounds the concept is emotional content. Real sounds very rarely sound real in the context of a film, so need to create sounds that are emotionally "satisfying" to the audience.
In real life punches don't sound like much, but when you receive a hard punch your whole body becomes involved, including the fluids in your ears. Low frequencies are felt as much as heard, so you add low frequencies to "involve" the physical bodies of the audience.
Gunshots in real life, when heard at more than a couple of yards (outdoors) sound more like "Pop". When you are close up/handling it you feel the concussion of the weapon when it is fired; this is why you add low end to a gunshot, so the audience becomes "involved" in the sound.
Two books you should get and read:
The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament
The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
They are full of history as well as the technical and practical aspects of creating Foley and sound effects.
In real life punches don't sound like much, but when you receive a hard punch your whole body becomes involved, including the fluids in your ears. Low frequencies are felt as much as heard, so you add low frequencies to "involve" the physical bodies of the audience.
Gunshots in real life, when heard at more than a couple of yards (outdoors) sound more like "Pop". When you are close up/handling it you feel the concussion of the weapon when it is fired; this is why you add low end to a gunshot, so the audience becomes "involved" in the sound.
Two books you should get and read:
The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament
The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
They are full of history as well as the technical and practical aspects of creating Foley and sound effects.
Gotta say... from these (hopefully) sarcastic suggestions in these threads... I'd hate to be on one of your sets
The simplest way to make a bad film that is! The simplest way to film a fight scene is to just to insult the actors and then turn on your camera. Of course, you would just end up with a bit of shouting, swearing and maybe some pushing around. You'd get realistic footage but it would barely be interesting, let alone dramatic. If you tried to make a film this way, you wouldn't end up with a film, you'd end up with high definition CCTV! As Alcove and I explained, if you want to realise (rather than destroy) the dramatic impact of all the preparation and work put into the visual side of filmmaking, then you have to support it with quite a bit of consideration and work on the aural side of filmmaking. This means increasing the dramatic impact of your sound and creating an illusion of reality rather than relying on just simple/easy, yet incredibly boring, actual reality.
Of course, the problem you (and every sound FX designer) face is that you don't want it to sound "ridiculously hard" otherwise you'll destroy the the audience's suspension of disbelief and instead of a "brutal" or "gritty" fight scene you end up with a comic fight scene. In other words, in trying to add dramatic impact you can easily achieve the exact opposite! Although audience perception can be hugely different (gritty or comic), the line between the two when creating sound FX is usually very fine.
Of course, you're aware that some of the world's best talent and facilities (and a huge budget) was used to create the sound for "Dark Knight". So you must realise that lacking experience, facilities and budget, you're not going to be able to create the same level of believable dramatic impact. Much better, IMO, to not attempt to make the sound "ridiculously hard" and to sacrifice a little dramatic impact to make sure you don't cross that "believability" line.
G
I recently had some luck with a futon mattress and a baseball bat. I rolled it up with a Beyer TG-X50 inside (kept the futon rolled up with bungee cords and gaffers tape) and stood it in a corner of the studio. I miced it externally with an Audio Technica ATM-41 and the Neumann TLM 103. I had to move both around until I found the "sweet spot." Later I also "dressed" the futon in leather and suede jackets; the leather was too bright, but the suede sounded pretty good. I recorded over an hour of everything from glancing blows to whomping the f^ยข<ing hell out of it in various places at various angles. I also tried a cricket bat, some heavy dowels, a broom handle, etc. I even tried making a "fist" on the end of an axe handle with a glove; it didn't work out too well, but, hey, I tried.
Separately I tapped a Shure SM-58 and added ridiculous amounts of low end.
I was able to mix and match depending upon the perspective and added the low end from the SM-58 when I really wanted it to hurt. The multiple layers had to be carefully balanced during the mix.
Separately I tapped a Shure SM-58 and added ridiculous amounts of low end.
I was able to mix and match depending upon the perspective and added the low end from the SM-58 when I really wanted it to hurt. The multiple layers had to be carefully balanced during the mix.
I recorded someone punching me in the bare chest to try to capture an actual skin to skin contact noise. Then I recorded hitting punching mitts with a boxing glove for a crisper "pop". I then either stomped, or dropped a 40 lb weight on a "hollow" floor to get some base. After EQing each to fit the needs of highs mids and lows, it sounded pretty good. Just have to experiment more with body shots, they are a little bit more tricky for me.