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Preamps in recorders

A

Amrohourani

I have got an ntg 2 rode microphone, and iI was thinking abou purchasing the tascam dr -40, I searched online and found it that many users have a problem of hissing noise and it is caused from the bad preamps and the tascam dr-40 ( consedering that the ntg2 is a very low sensetitivty mic ).... Some recomended the roland r-26 but its a $500 recorder and its out of my buget, is there anything i can do to prevent hissing noise (h4n does the same too) any afapters or specific cables I should use? Or decent priced recorders with good preamps, ( iI though about preapms but the problem is that I need to have the ability to record seperate sound. So i though a recorder with good preamps is the key.

Thaks alot :)
 
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Get the mic as close to the mouth as possible - that will give good signal to noise ratio there, this is key

Avoid battery powering the NTG-2, use phantom power instead

And of course, the recorder/preamp is fundamental. The phantom ntg-2 is a solid base, and if you want 1st rate quality at tiny cost, run it through a SD MM-1 into Sony M10 Line-in.

No budget? This is OK-ish:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832911-REG/Tascam_DR100MKII_DR_100mkII_Portable_Linear.html
Avoid h4n
 
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Amrohourani said:
...any afapters or specific cables I should use?
Click to expand...

Assuming you're already using a standard mic cable, then "no", there are no adapters or other cables which will improve your audio.

Amrohourani said:
... Or decent priced recorders with good preamps...
Click to expand...

"Decent priced" budget recorders have budget preamps. If you want to step up to good preamps then you have to step up to a better than budget recorder, which is obviously going to cost more than a budget recorder. You have 4 options:

1. Get a more sensitive (higher output) mic (assuming you are already phantom powering your NTG2).
2. Step up to a more professional level recorder (maybe look at the used market?).
3. Add a decent/good quality field mixer to your setup (like this one).
4. Get the mic closer to the sound source.

G
 
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Sage Pictures said:
Get the mic as close to the mouth as possible - that will give good signal to noise ratio there, this is key

Avoid battery powering the NTG-2, use phantom power instead

And of course, the recorder/preamp is fundamental. The phantom ntg-2 is a solid base, and if you want 1st rate quality at tiny cost, run it through a SD MM-1 into Sony M10 Line-in.

No budget? This is OK-ish:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832911-REG/Tascam_DR100MKII_DR_100mkII_Portable_Linear.html
Avoid h4n
Click to expand...

I have tried connecting the ntg2 to a sound mixer, i tried allot of different ways to connect, one of them is through a DI BOX which was useless... What difference does it make if i use phantom power? Will it make a good set up if i connect my ntg2 > tascam dr100> d7000?? Is there a big difference in the pramps of the tascam dr100 and the tascam dr40??
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
Assuming you're already using a standard mic cable, then "no", there are no adapters or other cables which will improve your audio.



"Decent priced" budget recorders have budget preamps. If you want to step up to good preamps then you have to step up to a better than budget recorder, which is obviously going to cost more than a budget recorder. You have 4 options:

1. Get a more sensitive (higher output) mic (assuming you are already phantom powering your NTG2).
2. Step up to a more professional level recorder (maybe look at the used market?).
3. Add a decent/good quality field mixer to your setup (like this one).
4. Get the mic closer to the sound source.

G
Click to expand...

I will use phantom power of course. I heard that ntg2 with the tascam dr40 will have a hiss sound.... Is there a big difference between it and the tascam dr100? Does it have better preamps? Is a field mixer required? What does it do? Can I use a large 6channel sound mixer( i know its hard to carry around) ... About mic distance, i just connected my ntg2 directly to a mixer and used an output to my headphones.... My friend moved away and spoke from about 15 inches and it barley made any sound.. Then I tried diffrent cables using a di box and it became louder ..... Not sure about that , and when its near my mouth and i move it 3 inches the sound goes down alot... Will it become normal if I use a normal connection to a handy recorder?
 
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Amrohourani said:
I will use phantom power of course. I heard that ntg2 with the tascam dr40 will have a hiss sound.... Is there a big difference between it and the tascam dr100? Does it have better preamps? Is a field mixer required? What does it do? Can I use a large 6channel sound mixer( i know its hard to carry around) ... About mic distance, i just connected my ntg2 directly to a mixer and used an output to my headphones.... My friend moved away and spoke from about 15 inches and it barley made any sound.. Then I tried diffrent cables using a di box and it became louder ..... Not sure about that , and when its near my mouth and i move it 3 inches the sound goes down alot... Will it become normal if I use a normal connection to a handy recorder?
Click to expand...

A plain mixer doesn't amplify the signal, it needs good a preamp - the most delicate/sophisticated piece o the puzzle. Good electronics in this regard = worth its weight in gold

The mixer lets you optimize the voice level for how loud the person is speaking to saturate the track, and keep it well above the steady state noise floor

You will want to record into the tascam, not run into d7000. Dslr mic input = such bad

The phantom will get you a little bit cleaner a line, esp. with NTG-2

Even with the best equipment/locations in the world, there will always be environment sound to contend with. (eliminate as much as possible on set) It is the dialog editor who must extract and polish the sound to a professional sheen. So the task of recording is basically a 'minimize post difficulty campaign', to enter the realm of usability & w/ faith and luck encroach the higher echelons of 'good sound'
 
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Mics like the NTG-2 (and AT897) that rely on a battery as a part of their internal phantom power have lower output levels than other mics. This means that you will have to increase the gain of the preamp. "Budget" recorders/mixers have noisier preamps than their more expensive cousins. So when you increase the gain of the preamp of a budget recorder/mixer you increase the amount of self-noise that will be recorded. Using external phantom power for the NTG-2 and similar mics will not substantially reduce this effect.

The Inverse Square Law - Very simplified, it means that a sound twice as far away will only have 1/4 the volume. So a sound recorded at 24" is only one fourth as loud as a sound recorded at 12". A sound recorded at 48" is only one sixteenth (1/16th) as loud as a sound recorded at 12".

In addition, you are also picking up sounds from the ambient atmosphere. If the mic is not correctly aimed you will record more ambient atmosphere and less of the source sound, and distance exacerbates this effect; even if the mic is only a couple of degrees off-axis (the mic is not aimed directly at the source) you will pick up A LOT more ambient sound. This is why proper boom technique is so important.

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Set your NTG-2 for external phantom power and your recorder/mixer to supply phantom power. Use fresh batteries. Use a quality cable. As an experiment set up the mic 6" directly in front of a speaker; record a piece of music or something. Then set up the mic 24" directly in front of a speaker; record the same piece of music. Now set up the mic off-axis (the mic is not aimed directly at the speaker) at 24"; record the same piece of music. Import all three audio clips into your NLE or DAW; you will be able to see (visual waveforms) and hear the differences.

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The differences between the DR-40 and the DR-100 are so minimal that the average listener will not hear the difference.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
The Inverse Square Law
Click to expand...

*The biggest free upgrade

--

The 100mkII will get you much more gain and a bit less noise in the pre amp; not a game changer, but a bit more just in the area where you are looking for the most mileage. When the price difference between the 100 & 40 is so minimal, why not? Distance to mouth will still make the biggest difference either way (along with ensuring the location is quiet)
 
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While I agree with what you've posted in general, there's just one correction:

Sage Pictures said:
Even with the best equipment/locations in the world, there will always be environment sound to contend with. (eliminate as much as possible on set) It is the dialog editor who must extract and polish the sound to a professional sheen.

The dialog editor is the 'key piece' at the end of the signal chain...
Click to expand...

It's not quite that simple, the Dialogue Editor edits the dialogue; picks the best parts of the dialogue from the various takes, edits out the noise from around the dialogue, manufactures/edits the room tone to smooth out the gaps created by editing out the noise between the dialogue and generally prepares the dialogue for the pre-mix phase. The dialogue editor may also be responsible for specifying and editing in any ADR. The actual cleaning and polishing of the resultant dialogue is not done by the Dialogue Editor though, it's done by the Re-Recording Mixer.

G
 
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