On The Lot: Discuss the show

Spatula

Spatula

Who else watched the first episode of On The Lot tonight?

I like it... I really like it. I've never been so hyped about a reality show! For those who missed it, for the first episode, the filmmakers were all given loglines and then had to pitch their story to the judges.

I felt SO bad for the people who flunked the pitches. It was brutal. Many of them just were regurgitating the loglines with little story. Some of the pitches were SO terrible though. A lot of them were just nervous- transplanted from their little indie scenes into the big city rush type of deal. It was great to SEE the pitches, because you get an idea of what not to do, and what TO do. Be smooth and natural, and tell a STORY. Set up the characters, the situation, the conflict, the resolution... don't make excuses, don't wander off, don't "act it out", and don't try to impress the judges. Just tell the story, make it interesting, and keep it brief. Don't get bogged down in details- paint the big picture!

Such a great show- there's so much I think we "indies" can learn from watching "our people" get thrown into the pro-scene.
 
On another board, I said:

gonna be a great series...tough stuff...they started with the one thing most indie filmmakers never have to do...Pitch their film...to Hollywood bigwigs no less.
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someone else said pitching for distro was something that all indie filmmakers did...to which I responded:

I didn't get the impression (on the show - haven't looked at them on the website yet) that any of these folks were the types of filmmakers who do projects large enough to distribute...more smaller festival/competition types of filmmakers. I'm probably wrong and making inaccurate assumptions.

I've seen a shift in the last couple of years from talking heads shorts to larger production value shorts (more and better locations + more acting, less talking)...at least in the things I'm watching. I think the lower end indies ( I make a distinction between guerilla, indies and independants based mostly on budget/resource/permission acquisition - you're allowed to disagree with me, I often go too far ;) ) tend to self distribute, so haven't generally had to convince anyone other than themselves the merits of their pieces. I've tried to get more locations into my pieces (although they're still painfully talking heads pieces - I'm working on it), so I've done quite a bit of pitching. I've worked with actors who are not in my immediate group of acquaintances. I have to pitch to them too.

I know lots of indie filmmakers though who haven't moved past making movies with their immediate friends. The quality improves as they get more practice (as it would have to) but they never move out of their comfort circle and their livingrooms/garages to get more variety in their locations and talent pools.

I've also experienced the conflict caused by putting 2 "one man show" directors together on one set to make a project. It doesn't generally get worked through the first shoot. Like everything else, it's learning from mistakes and being an adult about admitting them and taking criticism.

Again, I know nothing of these directorial hopefuls, but my own experience in the indie film community has shown these commonalities in the mindset of the directors who are working toward moving up the ladder. I did my "Guerilla" filmmaker (videomakers for those of you who are sensitive to that sort of thing) work in high school and then later on my first couple of shorts. I decided to make the move to "Indie" filmmaker, so started getting permission to shoot places and getting actors that I hadn't met before the production, writing scripts and Pitching projects to all of these assets. Pitching the project was nerve wracking on my first one too. I've slowly figured it out and am much more comfortable in saying concise summaries that make sense instead of babbling about every little thing that pops into my head about the project ( like I am now :) ).

I like the show...it's going to challenge the filmmakers to move into the fiscal responsibility of the "Independant" filmmaker, then that will teach them also the massively collaborative mindset of the "Studio" filmmaker.

These last two also rely on others to distribute your film, so treating it as a business becomes part of the preproduction planning, with distribution and audience saturation as a goal to maximize profit. As we all know, Filmmakers deal with much larger budgets that HAVE to show not only fast ROI, but sizeable profits or they won't be able to continue being filmmakers without self-funding their next projects.
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Because, I'm linguistically effusive.
 
I enjoyed the first show... Completely enjoyed watching that first guy choke.. HARD.

I question how much these people have done in the past though. The pitch was harsh, and I would have probably struggled with it, but I don't understand why they're making such a big deal of the lack of sleep thing. Maybe it's just me, but I'm used to working on projects with little or no sleep.

I'm guessing most of these people have never done the 48hr film project, or any other short deadline projects.

I dunno. will be fun to watch over the next few months. I'm gonna have to try to find it on bittorrent, since i didn't record it. But would definitely like to keep that one dude's pitch on file. He nailed it.

I like the direction this show is heading (this far anyway) as opposed to how project green light was run. Looking forward to next week. It's unfortunate that we have to wait that long, not like with freaking american idol, being on almost EVERY DAY... ugh.
 
I didn't get to see it (thanks FOX for sending me the email alert after it aired), but will be downloading it from iTunes.

I'm a big Survivor fan. If there's one thing I know about this series is that Mark Burnett will make sure and keep it entertaining.
 
Makes me glad to be where I am...

I watched part of "On the Lot" last night. At the risk of sounding like I'm eating sour grapes, I have to honestly say that I don't envy those people. I don't want to put all my time and energy into trying to fit myself into someone else's ideas. The logline I saw that they had to pitch was something about someone mistaken for a CIA agent. I could care less about making a story like that. Thankfully, we indie filmmakers don't need the studios anymore. With cost effective HD cameras and low priced editing, animation and compositing software a non-studio filmmaker can do what they want. The biggest barrier to low budget filmmaking has always been distribution, but with on demand DVD production and digital distro through iTunes, even that is gone. The last barrier is building an audience. Good luck with that.

Turning filmmaking into a competition is really arbitrary. Filmmaking is about creating a story you are passionate about. Giving someone a random logline and throwing them a camera is no more filmmaking than putting a bunch of people on an island and asking them to vote each other off.
 
Turning karate into competition is really arbitrary too...you could be fighting for your life instead. I had a philosophical problem with competetive martial arts when I was younger, I thought it tainted the spirit of the practice. I've come to understand that without competition, you can't move past your current abilities. We are a species grounded in conflict. If we go without conflict, we stagnate.

Competition is necessary to push yourself as not only a filmmaker, but as a person. The argument that film should always only be art for arts' sake and needs to stay true to a single individuals viewpoint will keep you wanting for an audience.

I don't believe art can exist in a vacuum. Without an audience, there is no point to art. Art is communication, communication is a 2 party transaction. If you are comfortable with a small audience who "really gets what I'm doing", then keep doing that. I feel, as a communicator, that it is more important for me to learn to communicate my vision effectively than to expect my audience to learn to understand what I'm trying to say.

I'll posit that Filmmaking isn't about creating stories you're passionate about, but is about being passionate creating stories...no matter what they are.

I don't discount your viewpoint bugzilla, but my life experience has taught me that it is my responsibility to communicate well. I've spent decades at words and rhetoric to learn to use them to my advantage (and make them my beotch).

I entertain rotating live crowds of hundreds of people with no amplification for 5 hours a day every fall. If a joke that I thought was brilliant fails, I blame my misunderstanding of the crowd for the failure. We fuel our show by pushing the other performers to outdo us and we try to outdo them as well...competition.

I fence...I could just shadow fence with no opponent and learn to strike motionless targets, but I'll never know what I can actually do. I lose graciously and often, but I'm OK with that as long as I can learn from it...or teach something in the process.
 
Totally agreed knightly.

I happened to catch the show (seriously I just stumbled by it), and I thought there were a lot of true amatuers in the crowd and not a lot of pros.

The closest thing to a pro was the guy who had the priest pitch and just came in and told his story. It was refreshing, and as will said, it was simply the way you're supposed to do it.

There are two things I questioned though.

1) Why are people who are going to become directors for a studio supposed to write scripts and generate story ideas?

2) I can take one of those loglines (although they're not really stories I would be interested in), and create a dozen different stories in a few hours. Why are these people up until 3AM? I would have had at least 3 hours of sleep by that point.

Also, where were the slates and booms when they were filming? Did anyone see any?

I wonder how many of these people understand the "survival" techniques of reality shows. You know, do a decent job until the end and then kick butt? Don't shoot yourself in the foot early on or come out too strong?
 
WideShot said:
Totally agreed knightly.

I happened to catch the show (seriously I just stumbled by it), and I thought there were a lot of true amatuers in the crowd and not a lot of pros.

The closest thing to a pro was the guy who had the priest pitch and just came in and told his story. It was refreshing, and as will said, it was simply the way you're supposed to do it.

There are two things I questioned though.

1) Why are people who are going to become directors for a studio supposed to write scripts and generate story ideas?
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I can see where you are coming from, but I thought it was a cool idea. I would have liked the challenge.

WideShot said:
2) I can take one of those loglines (although they're not really stories I would be interested in), and create a dozen different stories in a few hours. Why are these people up until 3AM? I would have had at least 3 hours of sleep by that point.
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I completely agree with you on this.

WideShot said:
Also, where were the slates and booms when they were filming? Did anyone see any?
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I saw a boom, but no slate

WideShot said:
I wonder how many of these people understand the "survival" techniques of reality shows. You know, do a decent job until the end and then kick butt? Don't shoot yourself in the foot early on or come out too strong?
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Again, I completely agree with you.
 
Ya I didn't get why that guy choked, and the other guy who was monotone (the tone being an over-excited smurf on crack).

How much experience do you think these people have? I wish we got to see more of their films.
 
Of course they showed only one or two people that made it though to the next round. They have to show us the worst, for good television sake.

I don't think we will see anyone shine through for a couple of weeks.
 
if you can catch the folks' names, you can look them up on the website and see what films they have submitted to get where they are (I believe).
 
WideShot said:
Also, where were the slates and booms when they were filming? Did anyone see any?
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They probably wouldn't need slates, if they're editing themselves, and just doing 2.5min shorts in 24hrs. I'd hook the boom through the mixer into the camera- you don't have time to synch!
 
Mmm.. I've had the pleasure of shooting with the DVX twice now.. half of Bloody Hell, and all of French Onion were shot on that sexy, sexy beast. There's so many buttons, but all you really gotta know is where the zoom ring/focus ring is, the white balance, the shutter/iris settings, the XLR ports for mics, the mic levels on the display and the adjuster knobs, the record button, the playback... er... ok, it's a complicated sexy beast, but would you want it any other way?
 
yeah, but I can operate my canon by fondle...blindfolded with one hand handcuffed to the bed. I started playing with recreating that hyper saturated, too much color look that everyone seems to like about the DVX. On this show though, they just threw a stack of Panny's at the filmmakers and said go!...I'd spend 12 hours figuring out how to run the thing...and only have 12 hours to shoot and edit...of course, then I'd be able to complain about the lack of sleep :)
 
Just finished watching the second episode. Yes, I am completely hooked, but I knew I would be when I first heard about it. I watch a lot of Fox since my wife is addicted to reality TV (and she's gotten me there, too), so I saw previews many months ago. It was this show and this concept that kicked me in the butt to get started again. Yes, I will submit a film for next season. Will I get chosen? Who knows. Not worried about it. I just want to do the best I can do. I need this motivator.

The first thing I wanted to see was who got chosen and what their ages were. Speilberg mentioned in one interview that they were looking for "young" filmmakers and even mentioned "kids" at one point. Being 38 and just barely getting started, my heart sank when I heard him say it. Of all the directors I enjoy, I respect him the most because I grew up watching his films and was most inspired by everything he touched.

But, yes, as reality TV goes they must focus on the drama. And if you want to direct you'd better know how to tell a good story. One thing I love about my current job is I get to spend a lot of time in front of customers, pitching products and educating them on the technology. Watching some of those guys choke as bad as they did surprised me. Speaking in front of an audience is many individual's worst fear, but to direct you must be a leader and inspire others and that requires good communication skills. You also must be able to effectively work in a team. One of the guys who left tonight deserved it because his ego got in the way. Big man trying to force his will on everyone else, being the bully, only to end up crying on his way out . Too funny.

Does a director need to be a good writer? Probably not. A good storyteller, yes. The Adventures of Starkiller had many spelling and grammatical errors, but it didn't stop Lucas from turning it into Star Wars. Even the cast complained about the dialogue (Carrie Fisher, ironically, being one of them). Incidentally, Skywalking is a very interesting read for those who haven't read it.

I do see one potential problem with the show, though. Now every young buck with a camera is going to start running out and shooting anything and everything that moves just for a shot at their 5 minutes of fame. Just look at all the nutcases who actually thought they could sing coming out of the woodwork after the success of American Idol. Melinda should have won, BTW. I understand why she didn't, but, anyway...

Let's hope I'm not one of those nutcases. :lol:
 
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