Oh So Many Questions...

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Hello Everyone,

My name is Jon and I am currently a senior living in Orlando, Florida. I have recently discovered that I have a very large interest in (for lack of a better wording) behind-the-scenes work within film. By this I mean Lighting and Sound and things of that nature. All of the technical aspects of Film making interest me a great deal. I would really like to pursue an education and career in a technical position in film making but wanted some advice first. That is when I stumbled upon this forum and from what I have seen, the users give extraordinary advice. I want to begin by describing my school "problem". I am looking at 2 different schools in Orlando, Full Sail and Valencia Community College. Before you recommend a higher level, You have to understand that the chances of me being accepted are slim due to my GPA. Anyways, looking at the 2 schools I have heard many different things.

On Full Sail's side I have heard that people in the industry laugh at Full Sail grads and don't take them seriously at all. I have toured the school and seen the top-notch equipment and it was completely mind blowing. But I'm looking for a school that will actually enable me to find work afterward, not potentially work against me. I also know that the school is expensive (70 - 80k) but money is not an issue for me.

On the Valencia end, I have heard almost nothing about the program. I toured the school yesterday and met the department chair (Ralph Clemente) and read all the great testimonials (including one from Spielberg). It seems like it would also be a great place for me, but I just don't know enough about it.

So what I'm looking for I suppose is advice on the decision that I need to make, along with advice on my interest in film making. What should I expect? What kind of jobs would I be able to get? etc.

Thanks for your time, I am looking forward to a response.
 
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Here's what I would do:

Look over the websites to see if they have any "graduates success stories" or something of the sort and see what they have actually worked on.

For example, Vancouver Film School had a graduate who was nominated for 4 academy awards for his work on District 9.

Who cares what the guy said about Full Sail. Look over the products produced by their graduates and that tells you a more accurate story. "Everyone laughs at Full Sail grads" is a generality - don't listen to him.
 
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Welcome to the boards :)


I can't really offer advice on the schools in particular, just things I found when I started.

I like to go by the adage(as it applies to indie filmmaking)-if you're in the business to make money, you're in the wrong business.

Now, having said that, of course we want to make money-it just may take a while to get there. There are different paths to travel; school, internship, even just grabbing a camera and start filming. You have to make sure you love what you're doing, and will do it even if it may be awhile before money starts coming in(I'm still waiting:lol:)

Coming here is a great first step: A lot of people here with a LOT of experience-they've seen it, done it, or know someone who has. And they've all taken different steps to get there (wherever "there" might be)

Poke around the boards, we won't bite-we've had our shots ;). Check some of the other "Welcome" threads and the answers-a lot of others who have the similar questions to yours-and even don't be afraid to ask(as you have!)
 
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I appreciate the quick reply! I hate trying to make this decision and its killing me. It has become a matter of, do I listen to the reviews and negativity and possibly miss a great opportunity? Or do I take the "safe" route and see what happens?
 
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Look at the tangible results of the students who have gone there and choose the one which you think fits you best.

Also, make long-term decisions.

I can't tell you how many people I know ruined their lives going to the school "Their highschool sweetheart went to" and passed up Yale or Harvard or whatever, just for a dame.
 
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Get your hands dirty and get in there and twist knobs and get to learn your equipment.

Know your equipment cold. Don't get your attention stuck on how to use your equipment while you're filming, work with it enough so you know everything there is to know about that piece of equipment so using it is second nature.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's where I have learned the most.

To be honest, I didn't go to film school. I learned by doing. I ran into brick walls and came out of it alright and learned from my mistakes - there is no substitute for experience.
 
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Oh for sure.

Learning about something and not having the thing there so you can use it while learning is a sure way to disaster.

A few quick things I would check if you are interested in sound are:

- Do they have Pro Tools HD version 8?
- Do they have Euphonix System 5 mixboards?

Reason being is that Avid (makers of Pro Tools) is going to be working very close with Euphonix soon, so if you "grow up" using Euphonix and Pro Tools' latest version, that looks very good on a resume.

I'm not too savy on video equipment or what that entails, so I don't know what to look for in a school for that stuff.

But a program like the one at VFS is awesome because they have all the different departments, and the students create projects and run it through the whole line (pre-prod, scripts, filming, editing, VFX, and sound) so you get to actually create something rather than just study Citizen Kane all day and "talk about it" in class. Go out and DO.
 
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Well Full Sail gives you a Mac Book loaded with pro tools and all the AutoCAD software and what not. When I took the tour I saw some extremely high-tech pieces of equipment which I was told was state of the art. They have a heap of successful grads and all their classes are 4 hours lecture followed by 4 hours hands on lab time. So I am leaning their way.
 
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Well it is a community college so you don't actually own the software, but I'm unsure of what they work with. I do know they see themselves as a production company though and that they produce I believe 2 feature films during the school year, and numerous shorts over the summer.
 
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Well, I would personally choose Full Sail.

A co-worker of mine recently recommended this to someone who randomly called in asking the same question as you.

Hold on - I'm checking their website right now - I checked but they require info and e-mail etc. etc. and I don't need to get into that:

I think 4 hours study and 4 hours hands on is a winning combination.

I have experienced Community College and didn't have the greatest time nor did I learn much.

Full Sail seems like a better option for you - especially since it is all hands on.


Can you tell me what their sound department has in terms of equipment? Still got the promo from them?
 
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Sorry to double-post but the main point of college and school in general is to PREPARE you for the job, and if Full Sail closely approximates the equipment and what you will be using on your job I.E. what the industry mostly uses then that would be my choice.

Imagine going to college and learning how to fix analog telephones and getting a degree in how to set up and maintain analog phones when everyone is either digital or on a cell phone now - you gotta watch out for antiquated technology, and the film industry is rapidly updating and evolving and it's important to choose a school which keeps up with that and will ready you.

On the other hand, there is a great deal of stuff you should know from the old days of filmmaking which you should make sure you get on their curriculum,

one example is that I have yet to hear a big-time director not reference the old "Bonnie and Clyde" action sequence at the end of the movie when they are cutting together their chase seen or action sequence. So there is that aspect as well.
 
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I really appreciate the assistance. I have heard the majority of film making is networking and that you get out what you put in. So basically, work hard and get to know people and it will pay off. I plan on getting involved with absolutely every project I can, Build the biggest possible portfolio. I never thought I would get this kind of advice and help on here so this is fantastic!
 
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ROC said:
Get your hands dirty and get in there and twist knobs and get to learn your equipment.

Know your equipment cold. Don't get your attention stuck on how to use your equipment while you're filming, work with it enough so you know everything there is to know about that piece of equipment so using it is second nature.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's where I have learned the most.

To be honest, I didn't go to film school. I learned by doing. I ran into brick walls and came out of it alright and learned from my mistakes - there is no substitute for experience.
Click to expand...

To prove this point:

a while ago I worked for a minor league hockey team. I was to work in the video replay booth with the off ice official. There were two of us hired to split shifts. On our first days (pre season), I flipped switches, turned knobs. The other guy made fun of me "you're like my grandma, turning knobs and whatnot, learn it properly (whatever "properly" was to him)-I simply learn by doing and experimenting.

I ended up working three years at the position, with the head of team operations saying I was his "pro" and wished he had more people like me, the other guy didn't even finish out the season, he got flustered easily, and couldn't figure out a way to be efficient with the equipment. I eventually started culling footage for pregame videos, and even had a couple of my own created packages shown (okay, 3000 people isn't much, but it was a start :))

Got paid to watch hockey games from a nice box-booth-I've had worse jobs ;)

So flip away at those switches! Never know where it will get you :)
 
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As with any educational experience you get out of it what you put into it.

I've had mostly bad experiences with Full Sail grads in recent years. Full Sail has turned into a diploma mill, which it most definitely was not ten years ago when they turned out some really great people. The biggest problem with their recent grads is that they expect to be treated and given the same working assignments as people who have been in the biz for 20 years, so perhaps it is an attitude problem rather than a problem with the school itself. Or maybe it's a combination of the two; the school makes extravagant claims and the students believe that they are entitled to top jobs just because they graduated from FS.

I have never had a formal education in audio post. Back in the days of analog tape (when there were no FS style programs) I learned a solid base in studio technique by kibitzing with experienced engineers when my role as a session musician was done for the day. I put together a small home studio and applied what I had learned. I was invited to fly second chair once at a session when the assistant engineer was indisposed. I did well enough that I became the first call on the Rolodex when a sub was needed. I freelanced there and at other studios when my performing schedule allowed. I had to use whatever was available at those studios; some were top-flight, some were holes-in-the-wall. Many of the graduates from these diploma mills are so used to top of the line equipment, their thinking is so rigid and channelized, that the cannot cope with unfamiliar equipment or unexpected situations. Now I realize that there are some very solid people coming out of FS these days, but they seem to be the exception to the rule.

The school itself is unimportant; it is the instructors who make the difference, and how much you are willing to apply yourself. I had a fantastic instructor at FMC (Future Media Concepts) for most of my Pro Tools certification course. He had broad experience - engineering for Michael Jackson and Huey Lewis among others, working on films like "The Fifth Element", and was and still is the Pro Tools consultant and installation & maintenance tech for Turner Broadcasting. He would name drop not to impress but to give a common point of reference (i.e. "when I worked on the Thriller album we had a problem with _____ and resolved it by ___"). My other instructor stuck with the course book and his classes were about as interesting as watching grass grow.

Anyway, the point of all of this rambling is that you must know what you need to learn and then apply what you do learn. I got/get a lot out of my courses, seminars, etc. because I am focused on what I need to know and can immediately apply it. School is the perfect way to go for some and is totally wrong for others (like yours truly). No matter which route you choose you should immediately get your hands "dirty" by working on film sets or at post facilities as a lowly unpaid PA or whatever else you can get your hands on. I was steered in the direction of audio post by the instructor at my PT certification course and, coincidentally, had worked as a the production sound mixer for two short films at about the same time. I did A LOT of research on the 'net, joined discussion forums, did a lot of reading and did a ton of free work to gain experience. At this point I would like to spend some time with highly experienced pros in the studio or in a classroom because there are some things I need to experience to take the next step up.

So weigh your options carefully and make up your own mind. And remember; opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one, and they all stink!
 
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