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Managing sound

A

AcousticJames

Hey there. I looked around for an apporpriate sub forum for this request and didn't really see one, so I hope it's okay to ask this.

My question is about managing sound. What is the best way to go about having a constant background sound so that it doesn't shift between edits. I'm very much a filmmaking and technical type n00b (I'm just a writer, ya know? ;) ), but I plan on starting production on a script I'm finishing up in about 6 months (shooting for a Feb/Mar start date). Some scenes will be outside, some will be inside. The one thing I see with a lot of amateur movies is how the background sound shifts from edit to edit, and the dialogue over the top of that makes it worse. How do I go about keeping a constant background "noise" to layer my dialogue over? Do I just record a sample of room noise and loop that over and over for the entire scene, and then separate the audio from the video (recording digitally), clean it up and sync it up in post? Do I do all ADR?

Just curious as to the process. I have a good friend helping me with most of the photography aspects of it (you all know him as knightly), but as a musician, the sound is gonna be very important to me. It's what I notice right away.

Any tips, links, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

James
 
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It's called "Room Tone". For every location that you shoot you should have everybody be quiet for 30 seconds and just record silence. When you/or the editor sits down and edits, room tone will fill in the gaps and replace any unwanted sounds.

Getting (read that as buy or rent) a good shotgun microphone and a really good recorder. Don't forget to use/buy premium cables too. I use a laptop to capture sound. With SoundForge, I can wash the low end stuff out. ADR, I don't think anybody 'wants' to do ADR, it's a last resort because it's such a pain. After you get your movie edited all together and your sound is where it needs to be, you can use filters to get rid of the crap and even out the volume (aka normalizer).
 
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Thanks, Boz. knightly does have a really nice shotgun mic he's been using for his project, and I plan on using it for mine. But he has it wired directly into the camera. I plan on setting something up to record the sound separately into, like you suggested, a laptop running something like Audacity (it's free) or GarageBand, even. Something to separate the dialogue audio from the rest.

Thanks for the tip on "room tone" as well. That's kinda what I was figuring myself, just wanted clarification.
 
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AcousticJames said:
Something to separate the dialogue audio from the rest.
Click to expand...

the rest being.... ?

You only goal in the audio department during production is to get the best quality DIALOGUE you can.. everything else can be filled in later (and typically is replaced even if it's recorded on set)

Also, by running straight into the camera (presuming it's a good camera) you'll save some headaches, as everything will already be in sync. It's just a matter of adjusting levels and filtering noise and whatnot.. then adding your effects and music/etc to other 'tracks' and mixing it all together (IN POST)

One more time, all together now... Don't worry about ANYTHING but good clean DIALOGUE during production. (from the sound point of view that is.. obviously acting and lighting and whatnot matter too)


:D

good luck

By the way... IMed with knightly a bit.. and would be happy to do so again, including you to discuss all this stuff further.. it's always easier in a live situation than by forum I find. AND.. depending on the schedule and locations and stuff.. I might be available to help on your production too, as I am relatively close to y'all.
 
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That would be awesome, Will! Yeah, what I meant by "the rest" was getting a good, clean audio of the dialogue without any background noise, which would be recorded separately. Again, I'm a n00b with all this technical stuff (hey, I'm just a writer!), so I don't really know what I'm talking about. I just keep remembering a lot of bad, amateur movies where the "room tone" switches from edit to edit, and I want to avoid that. Thanks again for the advice.

I'm hoping for a Feb/Mar shoot date.

James
 
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Exactly. When I was writing knightly's project "Average Joe", there were two four word phrases I used quite often throughout the pre-prod process.

1. "I'm just the writer!"

2. "Fix it in post."

Those two statements can disavow you of pretty much all responsibility and liability with your director if you're careful. :lol:
 
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mrde50, I think the idea is not to so much edit out room tone as it is to mix it well with the recorded dialogue so that it sounds as if you have a constant tone in the background.

I could be wrong, but that would make sense to me. Just a matter of mixing the different tracks properly. Some subtle EQ'ing should take care of most of it.

James
 
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AcousticJames said:
I think the idea is not to so much edit out room tone as it is to mix it well with the recorded dialogue so that it sounds as if you have a constant tone in the background.
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I'm just HORRIBLE at getting room tone right. I opt to just edit it out completely. It seems to work for me.

The problem that I have when recording sound is all voices I record sound like they're speaking through a tunnel. There's that room echo present in every recording that makes it sound like I'm recording in a cave somewhere... I just can't stand that.

Can anyone give me advice on how to edit that out properly? I'd really appreciate it. :yes:
 
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Edit it out? I guess I don't understand what you mean by 'room tone'. Most sound guys record 30 seconds of silence (aka room tone) just so they can mix it in if they need to. Are you referring to the hum/buzz/hiss of a ground loop problem?

What mic are you using and how are you using it?
 
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mrde50 said:
The problem that I have when recording sound is all voices I record sound like they're speaking through a tunnel. There's that room echo present in every recording that makes it sound like I'm recording in a cave somewhere... I just can't stand that.

Can anyone give me advice on how to edit that out properly? I'd really appreciate it. :yes:
Click to expand...

This is probably due to a couple issues.. firstly, the mic is likely too far from the actors... You want a good shotgun mic as CLOSE to the actors mouth as possible, while staying out of the frame. And you need a shotgun mic, because it will pick up the sound coming from the actors mouth, not the rest of the room..

Secondly, the rooms you're working in must have a lot of reverb in them.. you can cut that down with big pieces of foam or carpet or even curtains and blankets.. either have those held up around the actors, or cover as much of the walls and flat hard surfaces you can to 'deaden' the sound.

Noise cancelling mics, I believe, are pretty much the same as a shutgun, in fact I think it might just be another name for a shotgun mic.. but you're best bet is to get a good sennheiser or similar that is very directional. Just remember, the longer the mic, the narrower the field of sound it will pick up, this is what you want, so you can isolate just the sound coming from an actors mouth, and then turn the boom so it points at the other actors mouth for their reply, and so on..
 
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I actually disassembled my shotgun mic to see how it was put together. It's basically 2 microphones, one directly behind the other. The front element picks up all of the sound it finds in front of it...the second everything that is not blocked by the first element (Off Axis-sounds). The second element seems to be applied to the first's sound as an inverse wave which cancels out the waves of everything but the small cone of influence that is in the range of the front element but invisible to the second. I can diagram this if necessary. A shotgun mic will get you the best possible sound, especially when surrounded by dead air (by using a furry blimp).
 
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I'm using an extendable 14' aluminum painters pole. I've attached the skeleton of a paint roller to it (since it was threaded for that) and afixed my blimp and mic to the paint roller...looks kinda weird, but works like a champ. I was using a microphone boom stand, but my boom operator hated me for it.
 
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knightly said:
I'm using an extendable 14' aluminum painters pole. I've attached the skeleton of a paint roller to it (since it was threaded for that) and afixed my blimp and mic to the paint roller...looks kinda weird, but works like a champ. I was using a microphone boom stand, but my boom operator hated me for it.
Click to expand...
How do you keep the squeaking from the rotating roller skeleton to a minimum? :lol:
 
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