Job in filming industry as a bridge to further career

Many students who want to be directors just shoot some shorts to begin their career. I think this is the best way to enter the industry and establish a career there. What is required to do that, is a script, a cast crew, and some thousand bucks for each short. Unfortunately, even if I get the first 2, I don't have the third. Get a job? Jobs I can work on without profession do not give much, even if you work 60 hours a week. Seriously, what should someone from bad social-economical status do, when there is no money for short films? Well, maybe for just 1, but we all know that in most cases, 1 is not enough. The only solution I see, is to get a minor job inside the industry, and go on from there.

My question is, what job should I target to? I like the post-production editing a bit, but that doesn't bring me to work on the set. AD? Script supervisor? Lights? Gaffer? Or should I take a specific profession as Camera or Sound Operator? Or should I get a job as Producer's Assistant, which doesn't bring me any value on the set, but is just easy to get? Or, should I try to act? Again, what job do you recommend me as a bridge, to be able to build a career as a director later on?
 
Screenwriting!

M. Night Shyamalan had no directing experience whatsoever, and he wrote a script (The Sixth Sense) that Hollywood wanted so badly, they agreed to let him direct it as part of the purchasing bargain.
 
Screenwriting!

M. Night Shyamalan had no directing experience whatsoever, and he wrote a script (The Sixth Sense) that Hollywood wanted so badly, they agreed to let him direct it as part of the purchasing bargain.

Survivor-bias-alert!
The exception this succes story portrays isn't a formula for success :P

There are many roads leading to Rome.
And it never hurts to get more experience.
 
what should someone from bad social-economical status do, when there is no money for short films?

You could build up your contacts, write a great short that gets everyone excited. Build up enough contacts and favors that you can ask people to volunteer their time. That's what I do.

My question is, what job should I target to?

What are you great at?

People around here are always after sound people, lighting people (both with gear) and good editors. You need to work out what's in demand in your area that you're good at.
 
Screenwriting!

M. Night Shyamalan had no directing experience whatsoever, and he wrote a script (The Sixth Sense) that Hollywood wanted so badly, they agreed to let him direct it as part of the purchasing bargain.

Well, he probably didn't "direct" it. There was probably a director that did all the job. And this guy was probably someone who needed to be asked if the true director wanted to change something in the script. I think it's the same as with Harry Potter movies, when K.J.Rowling insisted on being present on the set. It's like "Tell them what to do, but don't disturb them".

Nevertheless, I like this idea. But today, when everyone can write a script, (and many do), I kinda doubt that option. Moreover, think about that. Why this Shaymalan's story is so known? Why Stalone's story is so known (his written script served as his key)? Maybe because such cases are VERY rare?

There are many roads leading to Rome.
And it never hurts to get more experience.
Many roads? Yes. Infinite resources? (time, energy, money) No.

I've heard enough stories of kids who were giving coffee to the crew, turned into great directors. But that's just stories. Now let's be more realistic. What does giving coffee to everyone tells about you? Does it reflect your experience in filming process? Just imagine this:
- Hey, I need a job in the production.
- Do you have experience?
- Yes. I was in X amount productions.
- Great, what did you do there?
- I gave coffee to everyone!
- ...
- But I watched them all!!! I know what to do!!!
:lol:

Getting a job in the industry is not just about getting any job out there - it's getting the job, where you can be noticed, where you can prove yourself valuable in something that relates to the process. Yes, all roads lead to Rome, but which one would you recommend?
 
What are you great at?

Not great, but not bad. 3D animation, post-prod-editing. Both are NOT parts of the set.
I feel I can do with the sound, but that's a lot courses to take.
I can of course do logging (Script Supervising) or AD. But those of course give much lower perspectives.
 
When it comes to getting a job in the film industry there are dozens, if not hundreds, of applicants for even the most menial of jobs, so you are not going to walk into the offices of a production company and get the job you want. You are going to have to start as a PA, runner or similarly "lowly" position and work your way up. ("There are no small parts, just small actors" applies to all other jobs as well.)

So take whatever job you can get, do it well, do it intelligently, volunteer for every crap job that no one else wants (and do it well and with a smile), be on time, stay to the bitter end, keep your eyes open, keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself, be pleasant and learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, network, network, network, network, network. If you prove yourself to be smart and reliable you'll get moved up. Trust me, it will happen; smart, reliable people are rare in every business. With lots of hard work - and some luck - you'll get opportunities to do jobs that have more of a bearing on your becoming a director. But, as an aspiring director, the more you know about all of the various jobs of the set the better your directing skills will be.


Hey, I started out playing with various bands in dive bars and after 10+ years of hard work I got to play at venues like Carnegie Hall, The Apollo, The Beacon, Madison Square Garden and the Meadowlands. As a session player I kibitzed with the engineers, learned a lot, and started picking up sessions as a second set of hands during mix-downs. After retiring from performing I worked my way up to lead engineer at a recording studio. Later, as an audio post freelancer, I did a lot of data wrangling, archiving, and basic organizational/clean-up editing. This led to "real" editing, eventually doing sound effects for the first season of the 4Kids/FOX Saturday morning animated kids show "Magical Do-Re-Mi" - uncredited, of course.

So that's my advice; take whatever job you can get, work hard and keep your eyes on your ultimate goal.
 
When it comes to getting a job in the film industry there are dozens, if not hundreds, of applicants for even the most menial of jobs, so you are not going to walk into the offices of a production company and get the job you want. You are going to have to start as a PA, runner or similarly "lowly" position and work your way up. ("There are no small parts, just small actors" applies to all other jobs as well.)

So take whatever job you can get, do it well, do it intelligently, volunteer for every crap job that no one else wants (and do it well and with a smile), be on time, stay to the bitter end, keep your eyes open, keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself, be pleasant and learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, network, network, network, network, network. If you prove yourself to be smart and reliable you'll get moved up. Trust me, it will happen; smart, reliable people are rare in every business. With lots of hard work - and some luck - you'll get opportunities to do jobs that have more of a bearing on your becoming a director. But, as an aspiring director, the more you know about all of the various jobs of the set the better your directing skills will be.


Hey, I started out playing with various bands in dive bars and after 10+ years of hard work I got to play at venues like Carnegie Hall, The Apollo, The Beacon, Madison Square Garden and the Meadowlands. As a session player I kibitzed with the engineers, learned a lot, and started picking up sessions as a second set of hands during mix-downs. After retiring from performing I worked my way up to lead engineer at a recording studio. Later, as an audio post freelancer, I did a lot of data wrangling, archiving, and basic organizational/clean-up editing. This led to "real" editing, eventually doing sound effects for the first season of the 4Kids/FOX Saturday morning animated kids show "Magical Do-Re-Mi" - uncredited, of course.

So that's my advice; take whatever job you can get, work hard and keep your eyes on your ultimate goal.

This is encouraging.
Alas, I've got a different example as well, not from cinematography. I know someone who works in the municipality center in my city. He is a manager there (don't know exactly of what). He has employees under himself. One day he told me of a very good employee with good results. I asked him, why he doesn't promote him. He said, - "Why should I change his position, if he is very good at his current duties?".

It may sound stupid, but I'm afraid to become such good at some dirty job, that everybody will want me to stay there, because I'm doing it good.

P.S. Why didn't they credit you for that kids show?
 
P.S. Why didn't they credit you for that kids show?

Quite possibly the same reason my Grandafather was not credited for his set building work on The Shining - He was offered either money or credits. Building the crazy-paved fireplace for example was a big job that would've paid well. He needed the money at the time so he took it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of bargaining tactic is still employed today.
 
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Quite possibly the same reason my Grandafather was not credited for his set building work on The Shining - He was offered either money or credits. Building the crazy-paved fireplace was a big job that would've paid well. He needed the money at the time so he took it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of bargaining tactic is still employed today.

Why is this money OR credits??? How much a**ole the producer might be? :)
We are not talking about 2 spendable things, only one of them.
When I give you 100$, I have 100$ less. But credits? I can give credits to millions of people. It's not something I can run out of.
So what does it matter to the producer, money+credits or money with no credits?
 
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Well, he probably didn't "direct" it. There was probably a director that did all the job. And this guy was probably someone who needed to be asked if the true director wanted to change something in the script.

Oh, I'm sure the studio had someone watching his ass every minute to make sure he wasn't blowing their money. It grossed $672MM. And thus the career of Mr. Shyamalan was launched. It was all downhill from there, however. LOL.

And no, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone as a way to get into directing. That was tongue-in-cheek. He wrote a fantastic script that started a bidding war, and his terms were simple: whoever lets me direct gets the rights.
 
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Why didn't they credit you for that kids show?

It was a Japanese show being dubbed and resound-designed for American audiences. I was freelancing at the audio post house that was subcontracted for the project. That's part of the freelance gig, others get credited for your work. If I remember correctly the only audio credit in the USA version was the rerecording mixer - who owned the audio post house - and, of course, the voice talent.


I actually screwed myself out of the job; I created such a comprehensive, organized, well labeled library that one of the interns was able to put in the sounds for Season Two. I only got called in a few times for Season Two to custom create some new sounds - which, of course, ended up in the library for the intern to use. It was not renewed for Season Three.
 
Not great, but not bad. 3D animation, post-prod-editing. Both are NOT parts of the set.
I feel I can do with the sound, but that's a lot courses to take.

Awesome. Tell me something... If you're aiming to be a director, who would you prefer to work for you? Someone who is great or someone who is not bad? Ok, now you got your answer, why would they pay someone who is not bad when they have heaps of great workers beating down their door looking for paid work.

I can of course do logging (Script Supervising) or AD. But those of course give much lower perspectives.

Why do people think that script supervising is just logging? As for perspectives, there aren't that many positions (which these aren't entry level, well at least First AD isn't) that give you as much of a well rounded contact with so much of the critical people in the production as those two positions.

On top of that, it shows very little respect for these, often very hard to perform roles.

It may sound stupid, but I'm afraid to become such good at some dirty job, that everybody will want me to stay there, because I'm doing it good.

Yep, better off being poor at what you do, that way, no one asks you back? Is that what you're getting at? Opportunities are often offered to those who are great at their job who are adept at learning and thinking on their feet. Ask yourself, would you like to break in or stay out? The first step is always to break in, make contacts, then determine your best course of action.
 
Awesome. Tell me something... If you're aiming to be a director, who would you prefer to work for you? Someone who is great or someone who is not bad? Ok, now you got your answer, why would they pay someone who is not bad when they have heaps of great workers beating down their door looking for paid work.

Do you expect me to be "great" in something by default, without years of experience? :)

Why do people think that script supervising is just logging? As for perspectives, there aren't that many positions (which these aren't entry level, well at least First AD isn't) that give you as much of a well rounded contact with so much of the critical people in the production as those two positions.

First AD isn't an entry position, but the director can have more AD's on the set.
I did script supervising, but in small production (trailer), nearly a month ago. It wasn't only logging, but logging was at least 80% of my job.

I'll just say that on my recent feature shoot, the script supervisor was one of the most important and valuable members of the crew.

Does that job really needs a college degree or some courses? ;)
This is what I meant. All technical professions that have to do with sound or camera do need at least courses. Lights maybe too, but I'm not sure.
 
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Do you expect me to be "great" in something by default, without years of experience?

Lets be clear. I don't expect you to be great at anything.

First AD isn't an entry position

I may not have been clear in what I mean, but we're on the same page there. First AD is no where near an entry level position.

I did script supervising, but in small production (trailer), nearly a month ago. It wasn't only logging, but logging was at least 80% of my job.

Logging is important. Most of the logging on set should be done by other departments so you can concentrate on your responsibilities (which also include logging of your own set of notes).

Were you the only one taking the camera and sound notes?

[RE Script Supervisor]Does that job really needs a college degree or some courses?

No.

There aren't a lot of jobs that actually require courses. Most that do are due to state or federal rules: Armorer, Pyrotechnic, Accountant, Electrician (there are other jobs too), I'd expect builder (if you include trade school) though, camera, sound, director and most others don't NEED to do courses as per say. They are a good option for some.

Anyway, we're going well off topic here. The big three jobs that lead to directing are typically writing, editing, producing and less commonly acting and cinematographer. The path that leads to directing more than any other is directing. It doesn't mean that people don't climb into the directors chair from other areas. You can pick any job you want to pick. Some get you closer to the directors chair, others will keep you the same distance away. The first priority is to get involved with the industry. Break in first. It's what you do after you break in that gets you closer to the directors chair or not. You've been given a lot of advice in this thread. Use it or discard it as you please. It's your career, not ours.
 
Were you the only one taking the camera and sound notes?

Yes, I alone. I wrote down all notes of camera, sound, make-up, props and clothes. 3 days I was carrying dozens of papers with me :) Next time I'll bring my laptop. I didn't know that there are standard sheets for that.
 
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The only solution I see, is to get a minor job inside the industry, and go on from there.
Okay, your only solution is to get a “minor” job inside the industry.
Editing, scripty, gaffer, actor are not typically considered “minor”
jobs.
what job do you recommend me as a bridge, to be able to build a career as a director later on?
Entry level jobs are what you should target. Jobs that don't need
much experience or skills when starting. You can build experience
and skills from there. Producers Assistant? Good option. There is
not job called “lights” so I assume you mean either grip or electric
or both.

I know nothing about the Israeli film industry. Everything I know
comes from you and you tell me that there is not a lot of production
and Israeli movies are often made for a very selective audience. So
if there are “minor” jobs available then you should take as many as
you can. It doesn't really matter what job people recommend – take
the “minor” job you are offered. Are there many entry level
opportunities where you live? Are there script supervisor jobs available?
 
I know nothing about the Israeli film industry. Everything I know
comes from you and you tell me that there is not a lot of production
and Israeli movies are often made for a very selective audience.

Yes. But I believe the structure of the industry is the same everywhere. I don't think there is something different about jobs there.

Production assistant... Well, as a production assistant I was more in driving than on the set: needed to bring actors, or food or something or someone. What I do like about this job, is that people that on the set love you. :yes: I felt like their Momma :lol: lol
 
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